Testimonies

Edwards, James Barber | Day 3

Witness Type: Briber, No Indemnity, Petition witness, Treater

Party: Liberal

Other Days The Witness Was Called On: Day 4 | Day 9 | Day 10 | Day 14 | Petition Day 1

Witness Testimony:

• 3268.

  Do you know how much you paid him before the election ? — I have got against Rose 50L., 50L., and 140L., making 240L., and then two others 50L., making 340L. ; that would be before the 17th.

• 3269.

  You said a day or two after the election you think you paid him a small amount ? — Yes.

• 3270.

  And the rest you paid him 10 days or a fortnight afterwards ? — Yes.

• 3271.

  With regard to the 340L. and the first payments made to Rose, did you give him any instructions how to disburse it, or was it left to his own discretion ? —! should like to explain about Walmer; it was considered that I had nothing to do with Walmer, but Mr. Emmerson said it would be convenient if I would just attend at Walmer, and when I saw Mr. Rose I said, ” I do not want to interfere with Walmer ; you have the entire management, and Mr. Emmerson is the party I look to, but whatever you have done before, and whatever is right, do, but keep the expenses down. Mr. Rose had the entire management, though he used to submit occasionally things to me.

• 3272.

  He used to take rooms, and do what he thought necessary, and you gave him instructions to keep the expenses down ? — Yes.

• 3273.

  In regard to the payments made after the election, were you aware that that was to recoup him moneys that he had expended ? — Yes, some of it ; some of the money that I paid before and just after, I suppose, went illegally. I have never had any account from him except the account that was filed, amounting to 306L.

• 3274.

  You have never had any account beyond that ? — No, none.

• 3275.

  He came to you and stated that he had expended monies to the amount which he asked you to recoup him ? — Yes.

• 3276.

  Did he give you any particulars as to how the money had been spent, or did he tell you that it had been expended for the purposes of the election ? — He gave no particulars ; he used to say he wanted so much for bribery, and I said, I wanted to know nothing about that.

• 3277.

  He told you it was to pay certain parties to whom he had made promises ? — Yes, quite so. I merely wanted to know the money he wanted, and I did not want to know what he did with it,

• 3278.

  You say, having undertaken to pay him what he might expend you paid him ? — Yes, although I was wrong in doing so, inasmuch as Sir Julian Goldsmid said, “Do not pay anything after the election.”

• 3279.

  Did Sir Julian Goldsmid know anything about your having paid these amounts ? — No, I never informed Sir Julian anything about what I paid.

• 3280.

  Does the same answer apply to the monies you gave to Outwin ? — Yes, certainly, I never mentioned it to Sir Julian.

• 3281.

  There is a sum of 297L. that you paid to Cornwell, when was that paid to him ? — During the progress of the election and immediately afterwards.

• 3282.

  Can you tell how much was paid during the progress of the election, and how much afterwards ? — It is an awkward thing. I see that I put here in my memorandum “Cornwell and POLES, 110L.,” some would be for Cornwell and some for Ramell.

• 3283.

  You paid Cornwell and Ramell altogether 505L. ? — Yes.

• 3284.

  told you give them instructions to spend that amount according to their judgment ? — It was in this way, Cornwell had the management entirely of the COMMITTEE ROOMS and he employed clerks, and so on.

• 3285.

  Clerks and messengers ? — Yes. I have here a list that he gave me, and I think it is very similar to the list returned to the Judges, messengers, &c., 124L. 2s. ; personating agents, guides, clerks, canvassers, poll clerks, 61L. 17s. 6d. In the election expenses filed the other day I extracted with regard to Mr. Cornwell certain amounts, because the election agent said, ” Do not put in anything that the law does not allow,” and therefore I struck out some things.

• 3286.

  I am speaking now of the account that he handed in to you and you handed in to the Judges, which amounts to 124L. 2s. for messengers, and 61L. 17s. 6d. for personating agents, and so on ? — Yes. Then there is T. C. Hall for out-voters 15L, Pilcher, Canterbury election agent 5L, Bristow, making, and putting up, and taking down FLAGSTAFF 2L, Goymer 12L., Woodcock 5s., stamps 5L. 10s., petty cash, sundries, 13L. 1s. 6d., and Forrester’s initiation fee 10s. 6d.

• 3287.

  How is the difference made up between that and the 297L. which Cornwell had altogether ? — 60L. was paid to Warner and Watts. Then there is 14L., making altogether 303L. 6s. 6d., but I only paid Cornwell 207L., leaving a balance of 6L. 6s. 6d,

• 3288.

  What was the 14L ? — That was paid to a Mr. Lownds.

• 3289.

  The 50L. was for them to distribute, was it not ? — I do not know. I think Mr. Warner wanted it at an early part of the election. Warner was about a great deal, and Watts had a COMMITTEE ROOM I think, and was very active, and Lownds was the man who managed messengers, bill stickers, and all that sort of thing.

• 3290.

  Ramell 208L., what was that for ? — For POLES, and the band I think he paid out of it.

• 3291.

  I see “Putting up FLAGPOLES 118L., is that at Deal ? — Yes.

• 3292.

  Prince of Wales’s Terrace, putting up pole 25L., could it cost 25L. to put up a FLAGSTAFF ? — I think very likely one of the FLAGSTAFFS that you see along the town would cost 50L. or 60L. It was not merely the putting up, but getting ready and preparing the ROPES, and so on. It was a very fine staff with mainmast and topmast. I am afraid I am guilty in the matter ; they were putting up a very fine pole for Roberts upon the Prince of Wales’s Terrace, and Sir Julian was a few doors off, and I said, “Oh, dear me, we must have a better one than that,” and they brought in a bill of 25L.

• 3293.

  It seems to the uninitiated a large sum ? — I complained myself, and said surely there must be a mistake. I told Sir Julian about it and asked him to give me a guess as to the cost, and he said he had seen it, and he supposed it would cost 4L. or 5L., but it amounted to 25L. and the money was paid.

• 3294.

  Then there are WATCHERS, 11L. 15s., I suppose that is to watch the POLES ? — Yes, and it was quite necessary, because they used to cut the ROPES, causing great expense.

• 3295.

  Then taking down the FLAGS, 16L. 10s. ? — That was supposed to be a very reasonable item.

• 3296.

  How is the difference between that amount and the 208L. made up, there is a difference of about 20L, do you know of what that consists ? — The band is not returned there.

• 3297.

  How much is that ? — 25L. ; and the reason why it is not put there is this — Sir Julian had a great objection to a band and said he never had a band in his life. One day he said, “I see you have got a band,” upon which I shrugged my shoulders and said I could not help it. It was said there must be a band, and a band was sent, and it was paid for, 25L., but who sent it I do not know.