Testimonies

Edwards, James Barber | Day 9

Witness Type: Briber, No Indemnity, Petition witness, Treater

Party: Liberal

Other Days The Witness Was Called On: Petition Day 1 | Day 3 | Day 4 | Day 10 | Day 14

Witness Testimony:

• 9912.

  Witness recalled and further examined. (Mr. Holl.) I do not know, Mr. Edwards, whether you would wish to make any explanation as regards this matter ? — No, that is the fact.

• 9913.

  You will see that I drew your attention to the fact of this large item of 14L. ? — You did do so, and made a remark about the expenditure, and then went on to another subject, and I really did not go into the matter.

• 9914.

  After drawing your attention to this item, and suggesting that it was rather a large amount, I asked you how long you thought Mr. Brown would be engaged upon it, and you said you thought two or three days ; your exact answer was, “I should think some days.” Then I ask you, “Two or three days,” and you say, “Quite ; it is not an easy matter to dissect a register so as to have the names all in order for the purpose of canvassing, and to prepare large sheets likewise for the voting.” Then I ask you again, “Does not it strike you as being a large item, 14L. for two or three days work, to a gentleman in that position ? ” and your answer is, “I do not know, and I think that is the amount that has been paid before ” ? — I think there was a confusion about the 10L. and the 14L.

• 9915.

  No, pardon me, the 10L. at that time had not been mentioned at all ; nothing at all had been mentioned, except the item of 14L. and the 10L. was never mentioned till subsequently. I have the shorthand writer’s notes before me ? — In starting, something was said about its including the strike lists, and you said there was a separate charge for it.

• 9916.

  I beg your pardon, that is afterwards. I have the shorthand writer’s notes before me, and I will read the whole of it to you. (Q.) ” There is an item here of “14L. to Brown for preparing canvassing and promise books ; was that for printing them ? — (A.) It was dissecting the register and putting the names into canvass books, and preparing sheets for the COMMITTEE ROOMS, instructions, I think, they call them. (Q.) “What is Mr. Brown ? — (A.) He is a rate collector here, (Q.) How long would that take him to do, a day or so ? — (A.) I should think some days. (Q.) Two or three days ? — (A.) Quite. It is not any easy matter to dissect a register, so as to have the names all in order for the purposes of canvassing, and to prepare large sheets likewise for the voting. (Q.) Does not it strike you as being a large item, 14L. for two or three days work to a gentleman in that position ? — (A.) I do not know, and I think that is the amount that has been paid before. (Q.) About how many books were there prepared ? — (A.) 8 or 10, I think. (Q.) For Deal ? — [A,) Yes. (Q.) Have you got one of them at all ? — (A.) I do not think I have any. (Q.) Mr. Brown is a ” voter, I presume ? — (A.) They went into different hands of the committee for the purpose of canvassing. (Q.) Mr. Brown was a voter, I presume ? — (A.) His son did all this work for him, who is with him, and who is not a voter. (Q.) (Mr. Jeune.) What is meant by ‘preparing,’ he did not write anything in the books ? — (A.) Yes, he wrote all the names of the voters, and had them all arranged, which is not the case in the register; they are all higgledy-piggledy in the register, and they were obliged to be brought into different streets, and it was only by the assistance of Mr. Brown that it could be well done, because, being a rate collector, he knows where everybody lives. (Q.) In fact, it was arranging and copying out 2,000 names ? — (A.) No, it would not be 2,000 names, because it was only forDeaL (Q.) Then it would only be about 1,200 names ? — (A.) Yes, but in addition to that, there are the strike sheets. (Q.) What are the strike sheets ? — (A,) Sheets with the names of all the voters, which are stuck up in the COMMITTEE ROOM upon the day of the election, so as to enable you to strike out the names of those who had voted. (Q.) That would be, in point of fact, a copy of the register. A mere copy of the register ? —(A.) Yes. (Q.) Who did the strike lists ? — (A,) They were done by a Mr. Goymer, I think. The strike lists were never mentioned till then, and you yourself point out that that was done by Mr. Goymer, and you say 10L. was charged for that, so that the whole of the statement was in reference to the 14L., alone. Did not you remember at the time you made this statement, and suggested that this was what Mr. Brown had had before, that his bill was only for 4L. ? — I could not have suggested that it was what Mr. Brown had before.

• 9917.

  But I have got the shorthand writer’s notes before me, and you are asked, ” Does it not strike you as being a large item, 14L. for two or three days work “to a gentleman in that position,” and your answer was, “I do not know, and I think that is the amount that has been paid before” ? — If I did so, it was a mistake entirely. .

• 9918.

  Did you remember at that time that you had altered this charge from 4L. into 14L by putting a one before it in his own bill ? — At that time I do not know that I had it in my mind.

• 9919.

  Surely you could not do such a thing as that without remembering it ? — I did increase the charge ; I say so.

• 9920.

  I know you did, but you did not inform us of it, and at a time when we were questioning especially as to this item, and suggesting how excessive it was, you entirely concealed from us the fact that you had altered the bill from 4L. to 14L. ? — As compared with the strike list it was a ridiculous charge.

• 9921.

  Did you ever tell Mr. Brown that you had altered his bill from 4L to 14L. ? — My clerks were in formed of it, and I have no doubt Mr. Brown would be informed.

• 9922.

  But Mr. Brown appears to have been entirely ignorant of it ? — If he was not informed, his son was ; I cannot say which.

• 9923.

  What is the name of the clerk who informed the son or the father ? — I should think it would be Mr. Hammond.

• 9924.

  Are you sure ? — No, I could not be sure ; there were five of them, and I think it would be Hammond.

• 9925.

  We have Mr. Brown’s evidence that his son told him, just before he went away, that he was to have 4L., and that leads my mind to the conclusion that his son knew nothing about it, because he comes here indignantly to repudiate the fact that he had charged this excessive sum of 14L. ? — That is my explanation, and I can say no more.

• 9926.

  I cannot say that it appears to my mind, and I am sorry to say so, a very satisfactory explanation. Was this (handing a paper) the bill that you altered ? — Yes, I increased it to 14L.

• 9927.

  Look carefully and see whether that is the bill that you altered ? — Yes, I suppose that was the bill.

• 9928.

  If you had told Mr. Brown that you were going to add something to his bill, it would have been another matter ? — This is not Mr. Brown’s bill, it is his son’s.

• 9929.

  It is the bill that was sent in to you ? — I think the son must have, been informed of it ; I told my clerks, and they were fully aware of it.

• 9930.

  We shall have the son’s letter in the course of the day ; but it does not seem to me probable that he knew it, from what we have heard. It is a strange thing to alter a man’s bill without Ins consent or knowledge ? — He must have been informed of it.

• 9931.

  I say, as far as Mr. Brown is concerned, it is perfectly obvious that he was not informed of it ? — It is not Mr. Brown’s bill.

• 9932.

  It is as much his bill as if he had written it with his own hands. It is entered in the claims against the candidate in the altered form ? — It is the son’s bill.

• 9933.

  (Mr. Jeune.) When did you make this alteration ? — Before the accounts were taken to Mr. Lewis ; I took all the accounts up to Mr. Lewis.

• 9934.

  I suppose so, but that does not tell me much ; can you give the date at all nearer than that ? — I think I went to London the early part of June.

• 9935.

  It was in the month of June, was it, that you altered this ? — Yes.

• 9936.

  You went away for a fortnight directly after the election ? — A few days after.

• 9937.

  Were you back in June ? — Yes,

• 9938.

  And you altered this then ? — Yes.

• 9939.

  When did you give this paper to Mr. Lewis ? — I merely took the accounts to Mr. Lewis.

• 9940.

  When ? — The commencement of June, and this was one of the accounts.

• 9941.

  I understand that your own representation is that Mr. Brown was willing to take 4L. for this work ? — That was the account that came in, 4L.