Testimonies

Edwards, James Barber | Day 3

Witness Type: Briber, No Indemnity, Petition witness, Treater

Party: Liberal

Other Days The Witness Was Called On: Day 4 | Day 9 | Day 10 | Day 14 | Petition Day 1

Witness Testimony:

• 3208.

  I do not know whether it is actual recollection, or whether it is merely that you suppose so because it is the most likely place to have seen him ? — Sir Julian Goldsmid came every morning, and I saw him every morning there.

• 3209.

  And your impression is that you told him there the fact of your having received this 1,300L. ? — Yes.

• 3210.

  Do I understand that you are sure of that, or is it only an impression ? — I may have said, “I received the money at Sandwich,” without mentioning the amount.

• 3211.

  Can you remember exactly what you did say ; there is a difference between having an impression that you. would most probably tell him this, and having an actual recollection of the fact of having done it. Is what is passing in your mind that you think you must have done it, or have you an actual recollection of having done it ? — It is difficult to remember now, but I think I must have informed him. I do not know why I should not.

• 3212.

  You think you must have informed him, because there is no reason for not doing so ? — Yes ; and especially as always at Deal a large sum has been deposited, as I have understood. It is the first time I have ever had to do with money at elections.

• 3213.

  You say that Sir Julian told you he objected to that ? — Yes, very much.

• 3214.

  Can you remember anything more distinctly, beyond what you have told us in reference to the matter ? — No.

• 3215.

  (Mr. Jeune.) I understand you to say you think you did mention to Sir Julian that this money had come down ? — Yes.

• 3216.

  Have you any doubt that Sir Julian knew perfectly well that this money had come ? — No.

• 3217.

  You said that Mr. Foord said something about the friends of Sir Julian sending it. You have no doubt that Sir Julian knew perfectly well about it ? — I have no doubt that he knew his friends would supply some money. I should think so, at any rate.

• 3218.

  In alluding to the fact of the money having been received, did Sir Julian express any surprise, or anything of that sort ? — No, he did not express surprise.

• 3219.

  (Mr. Holl.) My friend has asked you whether Sir Julian expressed any surprise. Have you any distinct recollection whether you did tell him or not ? — I must have told him.

• 3220.

  “What I mean is this; of course there is a distinction between an impression that you must have told him, because you think there is no reason why you should not, and therefore must have done it, and having an actual positive recollection of the fact of having done so. I should like to know which it is you are speaking from ? — I think I said, ” The money has come.” That was the expression I used, I think.

• 3221.

  Do you remember what he said ? — No ; he did not make any observation upon it.

• 3222.

  You do not remember his making any observation about it ? — No. I do not think he cared to speak anything about money matters. It was not at all tasteful to his way of conducting an election to find money beforehand.

• 3223.

  (Mr. Jeune.) That would make it all the more remarkable, would it not, to him, when you called his attention to it, that money should be supplied ? — I think, perhaps, that he must have known his friends would supply money.

• 3224.

  It must have struck you not exactly as odd, but as a departure from Sir Julian s regular way of conducting elections, that this money should be sent. You must have thought that he had changed his mind, and had sent the money ? — Yes ; but I think very likely he had his friends to do it, rather than do it himself, because he had a great objection to it, and for aught I know his friends volunteered it. l think Mr. Foord said that his friends had found the money, and not Sir Julian.

• 3225.

  Are you clear that afterwards you mentioned it, sometime or another, to Sir Julian, that this money had come ? — Yes, I am certain I must have mentioned it.

• 3226.

  And you say Sir Julian did not express any surprise, or anything of that kind ? — No.

• 3227.

  And did not ask you how you got it ? — No.

• 3228.

  He seemed to understand that the money might have come ? — I suppose he did, or he might have asked some question. Whether he really did or not, I cannot say.

• 3229.

  (Mr. Holl.) I notice in your answer to my friend you said, ” I think I must have done.” Do you mean to say, positively, you did tell Sir Julian, or is it your impression that you must have done it, because you think you would have done it ? — I think I certainly must have told him.

• 3230.

  Again you use the expression ” I think I must have done it.” Do you really remember having done it, or do you mean that you think you would have done it, and therefore must have done it ? — Yes, I was going to repeat the word “must,” and I dare say I am meaning the same thing as you put to me, and when I say “must ” it is the same as if I said I did it. I am not very positive in speaking, though I may mean as much as people who speak more positively.

• 3231.

  Do you remember whether he made any observation when you told him ? — Not that I recollect. I do not think he said anything about it. As I have said, I do not think he cared to talk about money, I suppose because he had so much.

• 3232.

  Did it surprise you that he should make no observation at all about it ? — No, because I had previously said that it was only what I expected ought to be done ; that is, money forthcoming.

• 3233.

  I do not mean whether it surprised you that you got the money, but did it not surprise you that he made no observation in answer when you told him of it ? — No, I was not surprised. There was nothing to be surprised at. It was a natural thing to have money.

• 3234.

  I am not asking you whether it was natural to have the money, but whether you were surprised, when you told him about it, that he had made no observation ? — No, I was not surprised.

• 3235.

  (Mr. Jeune.) He would have made an observation if he had not known about it before ? — Yes, I should think so. I should think he knew the money was forthcoming better than I do, that is to say, incidentally. I do not know that he knew it positively. I had no knowledge of it till I was at Sandwich.

• 3236.

  (Mr. Holl.) Had you any conversation with him afterwards about this money. I understand you to say, you think you told him the morning after you received It ? — Yes.

• 3237.

  That would be the Saturday morning ? — Yes.