Testimonies

Edwards, James Barber | Day 4

Witness Type: Briber, No Indemnity, Petition witness, Treater

Party: Liberal

Other Days The Witness Was Called On: Day 3 | Day 9 | Day 10 | Day 14 | Petition Day 1

Witness Testimony:

• 3497.

  For calico alone it is 55L. ; he does not appear to have stinted himself. Then we hare Loyns, draper, 3L. 12s. 3d. ; that is for BOWS ? — I think he had a large bill against the other side, and I think there was some split about it.

• 3498.

  (Mr. Jeune) Yes you are right ? — I think there was some split about it.

• 3499.

  (Mr. Holl.) Then there are some small items for boards, and we have “ Verrier, rope for poles, 20L 6s.” That is in addition to the 80L. spent in Deal, so that in rope alone altogether over 100L. has been spent. Then we have ” Trollope, hire of poles, 3L. 3s.,” and again we have Mr. Golds, of Upper Walmer, draper, 19L. 2s. 3d. In this account alone, in round numbers, we have 62L. for carriages ? — Walmer is considered a little more aristocratic than Deal.

• 3500.

  In this account we have 62L. in Walmer for carriages ; for flags, colours, and rosettes in round numbers, 60L. spent by Mr. Rose, and additional items in this account amounting to 46L., making altogether 106L expended for flags and colours, and in addition we have 22L. for making, bringing up the expenditure upon flags and colours and making to 128L. in Walmer alone, independently of the claims for poles and rope ? — I do not think there is much for poles.

• 3501.

  In this account for rope and poles it is 23L odd, but in Rose’s account there is a charge of 66L. for poles and rope, so that the total expenditure upon poles and rope in the Walmer account altogether is 89L. odd, and for flags, colours, poles, rope, and making, in round numbers it is 217L, or 218L. for Walmer alone ? — Very likely.

• 3502.

  Out of an account of 519L, for Walmer we have 217L. or 218L. for poles, flags, colours, rope, and making, nearly 80L. for refreshments, 62L for carriages, leaving for what one would think more legitimate expenses apparently a very moderate amount ? — Walmer has been always distinct in their management from Deal, and I suppose that is their way of doing it.

• 3503.

  (Mr. Jeune.) There is one thing I am not quite satisfied about, upon the Friday you went to Mr. Emmerson, and met that man who was supposed to be Foord ? — Yes.

• 3504.

  How came you to go to Mr. Emmerson ? — Because Mr. Emmerson told me he expected somebody.

• 3505.

  When did Mr. Emmerson tell you that ? — When I was at Sandwich that morning.

• 3506.

  You were at Sandwich the same morning ? — Yes, I was often over at Sandwich.

• 3507.

  Emmerson told you he expected someone to come over with money ? — Yes.

• 3508.

  And told you to come and see him that after- noon ? — No, he told me someone was expected, and I said I intended going back by the train, but if the gentleman was coming I had better stay, and accordingly the gentleman did come, and I followed on to Mr. Emmerson’s office.

• 3509.

  You were there entirely on account of what Mr. Emmerson told you ? — No, I was in Sandwich.

• 3510.

  What caused you to meet Mr. Foord, and to expect to meet Mr. Foord, was only from what you heard from Mr. Emmerson ? — Yes.

• 3511.

  Did Mr. Emmerson tell you how he came to think that someone would come down that Friday and bring money ? — No.

• 3512.

  Did you not ask him ? — No, I certainly did not.

• 3513.

  I do not quite understand how it happened ; did he say to you that he expected somebody that afternoon with money ? — Yes.

• 3514.

  Did you not say, “How come you to know it — who has told you ” ? — No, certainly not.

• 3515.

  You did not ask him ? — No, certainly not.

• 3516.

  What did you think ? — How do you mean, “What did l think ?”

• 3517.

  How did you think Emmerson had known that somebody was coming that afternoon with money ? — I supposed that he must have known it from Sir Julian Goldsmid.

• 3518.

  That is what you supposed at the time ? — Yes for this reason, that Sir Julian Goldsmid had said as I stated yesterday, that he did not understand finding money for elections before the day of the election and in fact, that he never paid until after the election and that was how I supposed that he had arranged for money to be brought ; and it is a common thing, as I have said to have so much money down, and so it ought to have been here, but Sir Julian Goldsmid seemed to have a great aversion to it, not on account of paying, but he did not think it the right way of doing business.

• 3519.

  When Mr. Emmerson told you to come, and he expected money would come, you had no doubt in your mmd that Sir Julian Goldsmid had told Mr. Emmerson that money would come ? — I suppose so. I do not know how otherwise he would know it, but I did not ask Mr. Emmerson, because, as I say, I really supposed something of the kind myself, though I had not been informed by Sir Julian Goldsmid that it would be so. Mr. Emmerson I always looked upon as the head of the party here, and I suppose that was how it came to him ; he is always applied to by members or candidates in the first instance.

• 3520.

  Was Mr. Emmerson more in communication with Sir Julian Goldsmid than you were ? — Before the election I think he saw Sir Julian Goldsmid, but I never saw him, and afterwards, of course, if Sir Julian was over at Sandwich ; he would see Mr. Emmerson, and I believe he used to go over there very often.

• 3521.

  I suppose you have no doubt now that that money came by Sir Julian Goldsmid’s order ? — I will not say order. I should think he knew that money would come.

• 3522.

  You have no reason for thinking otherwise ; we want to know, for the purpose of investigating, if necessary, the matter a little further ? — Mr. Foord, as I stated yesterday, remarked that it was supplied by Sir Julian Goldsmid’s friends ; I do not think it was Sir Julian’s money.

• 3523.

  Mr. Foord said that the money was supplied by Sir Julian Goldsmid’s friends ? — Yes ; I believe it was Rochester that Sir Julian was sitting member for ?

• 3524.

  Yes ? — I think there his committee always used to pay anything, and he never was asked for money except at the last occasion, and he lost his election in consequence, because he would not submit to some little arrangement that was required of him.

• 3525.

  Except what you have told us, Foord said that the money was supplied by Sir Julian Goldsmid’s friends ; have you any reason that you can give us for knowing or supposing that Sir Julian knew of this money coming ? — No, not any.

• 3526.

  Nothing that you heard from himself ? — No.