Testimonies

Crompton-Roberts, Charles Henry | Day 16

Witness Type: Candidate / MP

Party: Conservative

Other Days The Witness Was Called On: Day 17 | Day 20

Witness Testimony:

• 18267.

  Do you think that the money really came to you, or was it given to anyone else? Did it pass through your hands ? — I do not suppose for a moment but that whoever made up the account made it up quite correctly. I should think it all went to me.

• 18268.

  Do you think it went through your hands, or that it was paid to other people ? — I have no doubt it went through my hands, or at any rate by my order was expended.

• 18269.

  Did you give any orders, do you think, for these moneys to be paid any persons there ? — No, I do not think so. I may safely say that no money was paid to anybody out of those sums whatever.

• 18270.

  However rich a man might be, and however he might be in the habit of spending large sums, it does appear to me difficult to see how you could disburse so large a sum as that without in any way knowing, or being able to account for, how it went ? — I have not the slightest doubt but that at the time I perfectly knew how every one of those sums had gone, because I see I have gone carefully through each item, and appear to have ticked every item, so that I must have had the different things explained to me at the time. But I am quite certain that the money never went for my election expenses.

• 18271.

  The total amount of this account, including this cash to you, amounts to £529, expended in 16 or 17 days ? — Yes.

• 18272.

  Who gave you the explanation as to how these sums had been spent ? — It appears to be rather different writing from the housekeeper’s, but I surmise it is Mrs Crompton Roberts’ housekeeper, and that account I have gone carefully through after we returned to London.

• 18273.

  These ticks are yours ? — Yes, all those dark ink marks are mine.

• 18274.

  Does not that enable you to recollect how these different sums, amounting to £170 or £180, were disbursed ? — I am sorry that I cannot give you any particulars about it.

• 18275.

  Do you think that your housekeeper could give any explanation as to how these moneys were expended ? — Only as to those where she has figured out the amount. I should not think of telling the housekeeper what I was going to do with money that she gave me. I do not know whether I have made myself clear, but at a place like Sandwich I could not carry money about with me in canvassing, and there was no place in the lodging house where I could lock up anything.

• 18276.

  What I am drawing attention to is this: it occurs to me that in London or Paris one can easily imagine spending £200 or £300 and not knowing what had become of it. That, no doubt, would be easy to do. But really, looking at the kind of things that a gentleman in your position could buy in Deal, it seems impossible to be able to spend such an amount of money without knowing in what way it was disbursed. There is no shop where you would be likely to be tempted to buy anything of any value, and it does appear, I confess, to be a very large amount to have been disbursed in the course of 16 or 17 days, without being able to remember in any way how so large an amount as that was disbursed ? — I am sorry that I should not have seen this paper before, because I might have been able then to fish up some particulars about it; but I have no recollection now, and I cannot charge my memory with any one of those sums.

• 18277.

  (Mr. Jeune.) Did you buy anything yourself personally, or give any orders at shops while you were at Deal ? — I bought an old fashioned silver snuff-box.

• 18278.

  Having recollected that, I suppose you can say what else ? — No, I cannot.

• 18279.

  What did it cost ? — The man let me have it at half its value. I know I should have paid three times as much for it in London.

• 18280.

  How much did you pay for it ? — £2, or something of that sort.

• 18281.

  That does not go far in the £170 ? — No, but that is the only thing I can recollect, and I have been trying to think it over.

• 18282.

  Did you do any treating ? — No, not a glass of beer to anybody. I was so cautioned by Mr Hughes, that every expenditure must come through his hands. So far as I can recollect his words, they were, “Every expenditure must come through my hands, and there must be no treating of any kind, and I will do my best for you.” That was the sort of remark he made when we first met. He said, “Are you agreeable to my being expenses agent?” I said, “Yes,” and he said, “If I am, everything must go through my hands.”

• 18283.

  (Mr. Holl.) Do you think that any portion of this money was paid to Mr Hughes, or any party connected with the Conservative party, for them to expend in any way ? — No, I am quite certain it was not.

• 18284.

  I do not mean Mr Hughes, but others connected with the party ? — No, I never came across anybody for that purpose.

• 18285.

  Did you authorise anyone to get any money from Mrs Steadman ? — Not that I am aware of.

• 18286.

  I am sure you will see the thing in the same way as I do. £170 is handed to you in money in the course of 16 or 17 days, and it does strike one that you ought to be able to give some account as to how that was spent in a place like Deal ? — I quite see it.

• 18287.

  The very fact of remembering about the snuff-box would make one think that you ought, in some way, to be able to account for it ? — I thought of that, because I found the snuff-box, this morning, accidentally.

• 18288.

  (Mr. Jeune.) Did the money ever come to you at all, and was it not something that you authorised to be paid, and which Mrs Steadman paid for you, and put it down as being to your order ? — It is possible, but I cannot charge my memory.

• 18289.

  Naturally enough you would not carry much money about in your pockets, but that makes it all the more strange that Mrs Steadman should have given you £170 in sovereigns. No one would carry that about in their pockets ? — No.

• 18290.

  Are you sure that neither you, nor Mr Hughes by your order, told anybody that they might get money from Mrs Steadman ? — I am quite sure of that.

• 18291.

  (Mr. Holl.) This occurs to us. You say you wish that you had seen this paper before, and inasmuch as you have not had an opportunity of considering it, and seeing it, if you so desire, we will let you consider it and see whether you can bring back your recollection ? — I very much wish I could; because, as a man of business I see that it looks stupid to you, but I very much regret that I have not kept any account of it.

• 18292.

  We thought that possibly in thinking it over, you may be able to refresh your recollection ? — With your permission, I will take it and consider it.

• 18293.

  It is possible that you may be able to get some clue to it from the housekeeper in whose handwriting it is. Perhaps you will be able to remember in what way those sums were made use of ? — I will try to refresh my recollection.

• 18294.

  (Mr. Jeune.) You were good enough to say just now that these figures in the passbook are references to your ledger. This is the ledger, I think, which you directed Mr Spofforth to produce (handing book) ? — Yes.

• 18295.

  Take, for example, folio 225, “Hoare, £500”, and the date is May 5th ? — Yes, it appears here, but it has no business to be here.

• 18296.

  Then the one before that is folio 41, and the next is folio 41. Do those correspond in the same way ? — No, that goes into the house account. This is supposed to be a ledger, and only those things ought to come in which are loans or additions to property. I have not seen this book since it was posted to Mr Hoare. I should like to mention privately that this is a ledger opened since 1871, and there is an account in it where my partner, before he was a partner with me, had a loan from me, and therefore when the name of “Hoare” appears in the bank book without any reference to me, that is how it got into this ledger under the name of “Hoare.”