Testimonies

Crompton-Roberts, Charles Henry | Day 16

Witness Type: Candidate / MP

Party: Conservative

Other Days The Witness Was Called On: Day 17 | Day 20

Witness Testimony:

• 18237.

  Had you no knowledge or idea whatever that money was being sent down to Mr Olds to distribute amongst the electors ? — No, none whatever.

• 18238.

  Do I understand you to say that you had no knowledge whatever that money was being distributed amongst the leading, or what I may call the active, men upon the Conservative side for the purpose of being redistributed by them amongst the electors ? — I had no idea of what was done with a penny of the money, excepting some payment at the Guildhall at Sandwich. I heard of a cheque being paid there to the returning officer, but that is the only amount I knew of or heard of being spent.

• 18239.

  I want to ask you this: without knowing precisely as to where and how the money was being spent, were you aware that money was being paid or distributed amongst the leading men in Sandwich and Deal upon the Conservative side for the purpose of influencing the voters ? — I had no idea that a penny was spent.

• 18240.

  I am not now upon the £1400 that you were not aware of, but with regard to the £3100 which was paid to Mr Hughes on or before the day of the election. How did you suppose that money was being expended ? — I had no idea at all.

• 18241.

  Then you give a cheque for £1000 a day after that, making £4100 up to that time. How did you suppose that money was being disbursed ? — I had not any idea whatever.

• 18242.

  They are very large sums even for a wealthy man. Did you never inquire of Mr Hughes how and in what way these very large sums were being made use of and disbursed ? — It has always been my plan if I give confidence to anyone until I find they have ill-treated me to continue that confidence. I never thought of asking him, and I had no idea but that it was used in the usual electioneering expenses.

• 18243.

  One would have thought that it would occur to you to inquire in some way how so large a sum of money as £4100 was being employed ? — With my present experience I should certainly ask that, but unfortunately I was quite a baby as to what was the cost of an election.

• 18244.

  It was not a very large borough, and therefore the expenses of canvassmg and so forth one would assume would not be very large ? — I was fool enough to think I did all the canvassing.

• 18245.

  Then that would make it appear more strange to you that so large a sum of money should be required for the purposes of the election, and one would have thought that you would have elected to make some inquiry as to how the money was being disbursed ? — I wish I had now.

• 18246.

  I will ask you the question plainly; did you abstain purposely from making any inquiry because you did not wish to know ? — No.

• 18247.

  I think you were staying at the time at the Royal Hotel ? — Yes, until we engaged a private house.

• 18248.

  The expenditure that seems to have taken place during your stay would seem to be a very large amount. I have here a paper handed to us by Mr Spofforth. You were about a fortnight, I think, at Deal ? — Yes, between that and three weeks.

• 18249.

  You left upon the 19th. You were there about 16 days ? — 17 days it is.

• 18250.

  From the account I hold in my hand the amount of money you disbursed in the borough during those 16 or 17 days appears to be somewhere about £500? Look at that account (handing paper) ? — Yes, it looks something like that.

• 18251.

  It includes some cash which appears to have been given to you or Captain Roberts, and that brings it up to over £600, and the whole of that amount appears to have been disbursed during those 16 or 17 days ? — This seems to be a statement that I drew up for the purpose of knowing the total cost of the election to me. I do not know how you got hold of this paper, but I am surprised it is not more.

• 18252.

  Do you know in whose handwriting this is ? — I think it is in the handwriting of my butler.

• 18253.

  (Mr. Jeune.) Is it in the handwriting of Mrs Steadman, your housekeeper ? — Yes, it may be.

• 18254.

  (Mr. Holl.) The notes upon it are in your handwriting ? — Yes, those in black ink are mine. I am surprised it is not more, because I spend more every week a great deal than that independentiy of any election. Of course, if a man has £600 a year, £300 would be a large item, but if you spend £20000, £30000, or £40000 a year it would be a small item.

• 18255.

  Do I understand that your ordinary expenditure is equal to this ? — More than that; three times as much, I should think.

• 18256.

  There seems to be large payments to tradesmen; £33 to the butchers, for instance ? — I could show you by the housekeeping book that our account is more than that.

• 18257.

  Then I see, Royal Hotel, £41 6s ? — With regard to the Royal Hotel, I was very much impressed with the honesty of the charges, and the other hotels treated me in a very different way.

• 18258.

  Then I see, Crompton Roberts, cash £5; Crompton Roberts, cash £20; cash £9 and £10; cash £60. D oyou know how those moneys were disbursed ? — I have not the slightest idea. Let me mention this; the house that I took at Deal was what you would call a superior lodging-house. I think I paid £12 12s a week for it. The door was always open, and I was out the whole of the day, and my family also, and therefore I did not carry any money about with me, and I asked the housekeeper to take charge of any money that I had. I went without any money in my pocket anywhere, and any moneys that I did spend not only during my stay in Deal, but for any other purposes connected with my establishment in London, or my establishment in Monmouthshire, might have come out of this sum.

• 18259.

  There appears to have been £10 in cash given to you at one time, which appears amongst all the household expenses, the expenses of your establishment, stables, and so forth ? — Yes. I am quite certain in my own mind that, if they are put down here, Mrs Steadman must have paid me the moneys, because she has been with us a great many years. But I cannot charge my memory in regard to them at all.

• 18260.

  Do you remember how you could have disbursed so large a sum as £104 in Deal ? — I am quite certain that those amounts were for no purposes of the election whatever. That I am quite positive about, because if they had been, it would have fixed itself upon my mind.

• 18261.

  Can you remember at all for what purpose you could require so large a sum as over £100 ? — No, I I have no idea.

• 18262.

  You see if you had sent down moneys to Monmouthshire you would have done that by cheque ? — Yes, that is so, no doubt.

• 18263.

  I confess from what I saw at Deal makes one think that it wouJd be a difficult matter to spend £100 in the time; there is not much to tempt one ? — I am sorry that I cannot give you any information. If I had seen this account lately I would have tried to puzzle out how the money went.

• 18264.

  Then I see again lower down, Crompton Roberts, cash £10; cash £10; cash £30L; Captain Roberts, cash £20. So that it appears to be, independently of all the household account, which appears to have been paid separately, nearly £400. There is £170-odd paid to you personally in cash, and what one would like to know is this: whether you can give any idea as to how so large a sum as that would be disbursed apart from the expenditure of the house, which seems to be entered all separately ? — I am sorry that I cannot recollect.

• 18265.

  Can you give any idea as to how any of it could have been spent ? — I am quite certain that if it had been spent for what you call electioneering purposes it would be fixed upon my mind, but I make that out to be less than £2000 or £3000 a year, and if you spend £30,000 a year in a general way you cannot be expected to carry such things in your head. Up to the time I was married I used to balance my account every night, but after I was married I found that was out of the question.

• 18266.

  You might not remember your expenditure if you were in a place like London, but it seems to me to be a large amount to be able to spend in Deal without your being able to account for how the money went. There is no field, if I may use such an expression, for spending a great deal of money there ? — I am very sorry that I did not keep a debtor and creditor account, but I have no idea now as to how it was spent.