Goldsmid, Sir Julian | Day 6

Sir Julian Goldsmid was 42 at the time of the by-election. Having lost his seat as the MP for Rochester in the earlier 1880 General Election, he decided to contest the Sandwich seat. When he lost the contest following sustained and systematic bribery, he successfully petitioned to have the result overturned and the Borough was disenfranchised until 1885.

He was named on the Petition as Sir Julian Goldsmid, Baronet of 105 Piccadilly.

Witness Type: Candidate / MP

Party: Liberal

Other Days The Witness Was Called On: Day 18

Witness Testimony:

  • 5616.

    And he went about with you, showing you about the place ? — Yes ; he seemed to me to be a very good sort of fellow.

  • 5617.

    He told us he promised to different persons various sums, varying from 1L. to 4L. and 5L., to vote for the Liberal interest. Were you aware of that ? — Not at all. I was not aware of that at all.

  • 5618.

    Or of those sums having been any of them paid ? — Nothing about it at all.

  • 5619.

    You told us that out of the sum of 200L. which Mr. Emmerson had, part of the 1,500L. which came down by Mr. Foord, he received 50L., part of which he said he expended in paying for refreshments at different public- houses from that day. Were you aware of that expenditure ? — I knew nothing about any amount of money paid to him, or received by him, and paid by him.

  • 5620.

    You did not know even that Mr. Emmerson had had any ? — No. I did not know that Mr. Emmerson had had any other money.

  • 5621.

    We have also heard that very considerable sums were paid by Mr. Edwards to a’ person named Outwin, for the purpose of being distributed among voters ; as much as 1,050L. Were you aware at all of that money having being paid to Outwin for that purpose ? — I was aware that money was paid to Outwin, because I understood he did make the arrangement about the PUBLIC-HOUSES.

  • 5622.

    He told us he received two sums of 50L. and 25L. in order to pay for the PUBLIC-HOUSES he had engaged ? — I did not know that.

  • 5623.

    But with regard to a further sum of 1,050L. which he said he received for the purpose of distribution among different voters ; were you aware of that at all ? — I was not aware of that at all.

  • 5624.

    Had you any suspicion or idea that anything of that kind was being done ? — I had no idea of it.

  • 5625.

    In the same way we are told that about 340L., I think, was given to Mr. Rose by Mr. Outwin for the purpose of distribution in some way among different voters. That was after the election, but they were previous promises. Were you at all aware that he, or anyone else, made any promises to voters ? — I knew nothing about it. I knew Mr. Rose, but I did not know anything about any promises made by him. I understood Mr. Rose had charge of the Walmer COMMITTEE ROOM ; that is where I saw him.

  • 5626.

    Had you any idea that he was making promises to different persons to pay them some 5L. each in purchase of their votes ? — I had no idea of it. I thought Mr. Rose was the agent in charge of the COMMITTEE ROOM at Walmer.

  • 5627.

    He was agent in charge of the COMMITTEE ROOM, but were you at all aware that in part discharge of what he considered his duty, he was making these promises ? — No, certainly not.

  • 5628.

    Were you aware at all that any person was making promises of that kind on his behalf to voters for their votes ? — I was not aware ^of any promises.

  • 5629.

    When did you first hear of this money, or any fraction of it, having been spent in this way ? — I think Mr. Lewis informed me, because I asked Mr. Lewis when I gave him his instructions, to find out all about the conduct of the election for the Liberals, because I wanted to know it.

  • 5630.

    You first heard it from him, when ? — I do not know the date.

  • 5631.

    Do you remember about the date ; was it before the petition that you heard it, or after ? — Long before the petition was tried. ,

  • 5632.

    What did you learn from Mr. Lewis about it ? — I believe Mr. Lewis informed me that Mr. Edwards told him he had considerable money of his own which he had paid to various people, part of which I understood was spent in bribery.

  • 5633.

    Did you learn from Mr. Lewis the amount that had been expended in that way ? — I don*t know now, nor do I know the amount of the legitimate expenses now, and I don’t think Mr. Lewis knows that.

  • 5634.

    Mr. Edwards has told us that he has paid some 400L. over and above the money he received ; — that he wrote to Lewis and Lewis for it, and they declined to pay it, or have not responded at any rate to the letter ? — Yes, I know that is so. Mr. Lewis informed me.

  • 5635.

    May I ask you to state your reasons or views why you have not “paid that amount ? — I have given Mr. Lewis money and told him to settle the accounts, as he thinks proper. I have perfect confidence in Mr. Lewis to do what is right ; and it was known the day I left to Mr. Emmerson or Mr. Edwards that he was going into these matters of account for me, I think two days after the election, and I have never troubled myself about the accounts at all. I have an enormous amount of business on my hands, and a great deal to do, and I have left it to Mr. Lewis.

  • 5636.

    You have left it entirely to his discretion to pay what he thinks you ought to pay, and decline to pay what he thinks you ought not to pay ? — Yes ; it is entirely left to his discretion, but I hope he will not pay all Mr. Denne’s account.

  • 5637.

    (Mr. Jeune,) Mr. Denne said this morning ho only expected to get half ? — That is all right.

  • 5638.

    (Mr. Holl) There is one person I was going to ask you about. Mr. Outwin told us he telegraphed to Greenwich for a man named Woodman to come down at your suggestion ? — That is quite incorrect, I think. I was written to by a friend of mine, whose name I can give, to tell me that in another constituency he had found this man Woodman a capital canvasser. I considered whether I would have him down. I said to Mr. Edwards, I have been recommended this man, and would he like to have him. Mr. Edwards said, “ Yes,” and I gave him the address. Woodman came down, came to me and presented himself, and put on a blue rosette.

  • 5639.

    Had you ever known Woodman before yourself ? — I had never known him before.

  • 5640.

    Was it solely in consequence of this recommendation from the friend you mentioned that you had him down ? — Yes. I can give the friend’s name.

  • 5641.

    Oh, never mind that ? — I would rather do so. (The witness wrote down the name and handed it to the Commissioners.) That gentleman gave me the recommendation of Woodman ; he would say so himself.

  • 5642.

    He found him a useful man, and he recommended him to you, and advised you to employ him ? — Yes.

  • 5643.

    And that was your sole reason for having him ? — Yes, I never heard of him, and knew nothing about him apart from that, but he was strongly recommended to me by this friend of mine. I should like to say I have brought our personal bill, which amounted to 32L. odd in the week, which is all we spent at our house in a week, lodging money and everything.

  • 5644.

    I understand you to say that you had different persons, when canvassing, ask you for employment ? — Yes, and asking for money too.

  • 5645.

    Did you at all respond to them or encourage them ? — I used to tell them they had come to the wrong person, and that is the reason, I believe, I was considered, as I am called by the Conservatives, very supercilious.