Gillow, Richard | Day 11
No indemnity against prosecution. Testified that he received no money at all and used his own. One of three people the Commissioners named in their report who expended their own money in bribery for the Liberals. Have shown here that he spent £80 but unclear whether he was reimbursed. He said he expected to be. Gave £60 to Joseph Nowers who gave £5 to 11 men and kept £5 for himself. Initially denied giving out any more but two people subsequently testified and he was recalled to explain.
Witness Type: Briber, No Indemnity, Treater
Party: Liberal
Other Days The Witness Was Called On: Day 14
Witness Testimony:
- 13259.
You say that it was with Mr. Terry that you had a conversation about giving money away ? — Yes.
- 13260.
Did he suggest to you to do it ? I asked Mr. Terry if he thought that the oil mills men could be got to vote for Sir Julian Goldsmid, and he said he thought they could.
- 13261.
That was two days before the election ? — It was before that.
- 13262.
What is Mr. Terry ? — A hop merchant, I think.
- 13263.
You talked with him about who you could get ? —Yes.
- 13264.
Who do you think would be the names of the people he thought you could get ? — It would be the men who worked in the oil mills.
- 13265.
Anybody else ? — We were going to get as many as we could, but we could not get any more.
- 13266.
Which were the people that suggested themselves to you, who could be, as you say, got ? — Nearly everyone in Sandwich, I think.
- 13267.
I daresay you may be accurate, and far be it from me to say you are not, but I think it is a little too general — what names suggested themselves to you as the sort of people to whom you would give the money ? — I thought I was going to get a tremendous lot, but I could not get any more.
- 13268.
Upon whom did you and Mr. Terry agree as the sort of people you could get ? — We agreed upon three men at the Oil Mills, and any others we might pick up.
- 13269.
Were any names mentioned ? — No, no names were mentioned.
- 13270.
You are quite sure ? — It is a funny question, but I do not know that I can answer it. I do not remember what I said to him.
- 13271.
I can easily picture to myself a little conversation between you and Terry ? — We had a long conversation together.
- 13272.
He would say to you, “We must spend money,” and you would say, “Who do you think we can get,” and he would say, “The men at the Oil Mills who would number 10 or 12, and then there is so-and-so,” and you would discuss whether he or they could be got. That is the sort of thing that took place ? — Yes.
- 13273.
All I want is the names ? — I cannot remember any names.
- 13274.
What was the sort of man you thought you could get ? — It was the working classes we were going to get, if he could get them — in fact, anyone.
- 13275.
How came Mr. Nowers to be called in to form the triumvirate — how did you bring him into the matter ? — I sent for him.
- 13276.
Did Mr. Terry suggest Mr. Nowers, or did you suggest him ? — I do not know which it was.
- 13277.
Both of you, perhaps, thought Mr. Nowers the best man ? — Yes, both of us — that is the best way of putting it
- 13278.
Did you think of anybody besides Mr. Nowers ? — No, I thought Mr. Nowers would be the best man to deal with.
- 13279.
Did you think of anybody else ? — No, because I only wanted to see one. I did not want to see any more.
- 13280.
Did you see anybody else besides Mr. Nowers ? —No.
- 13281.
You sent for Mr. Nowers, and he came ? — Yes.
- 13282.
And then you considered where the money should go, and how far it would go ? — Yes.
- 13283.
Who were thought of then, as the people to whom the money should be given ? — He gave me a list with 12 men upon it.
- 13284.
Mr. Nowers did ? — Yes, and I told him that was not enough, I wanted more than that.
- 13285.
What did he do then ? —He said he could not get any more then.
- 13286.
Did he get you any more afterwards ? — No.
- 13287.
He never brought you any more ? — No.
- 13288.
That is 12 men at 5L. apiece ? — I suppose so, if he shared it equally.