Goldsmid, Sir Julian | Day 6

Sir Julian Goldsmid was 42 at the time of the by-election. Having lost his seat as the MP for Rochester in the earlier 1880 General Election, he decided to contest the Sandwich seat. When he lost the contest following sustained and systematic bribery, he successfully petitioned to have the result overturned and the Borough was disenfranchised until 1885.

He was named on the Petition as Sir Julian Goldsmid, Baronet of 105 Piccadilly.

Witness Type: Candidate / MP

Party: Liberal

Other Days The Witness Was Called On: Day 18

Witness Testimony:

  • 5586.

    Did you anticipate that the legitimate expenses of the election would amount to that sum, or about that sum ? — That sum had been mentioned to me, and I supposed that the legitimate expenses, with the things I saw which I considered very illegal, the FLAGS, and so on, but for which I know I am liable, would most certainly amount to that.

  • 5587.

    Though you knew there was an illegitimate expense being incurred you thought you ought to pay for it ? — Yes ; my agent had ordered it as far as I knew. I will hand you the fly leaves of the cheques in the book (handing same to the Commissioners).

  • 5588.

    This is the cheque book you received down on Friday morning ? — -Yes.

  • 5589.

    I see the first counterfoil in this book shows the first cheque was drawn on the 13th of May, which would be the Thursday ? — I cannot say I drew it on that day. It may have been in the night, or it may have been the 14th. It may have been early on Friday morning, though I dated it the 13th.

  • 5590.

    The first cheque you drew in this book is the cheque with which you redeemed your own cheque on the Bank of England for 320 ? ? — Yes.

  • 5591.

    I see on the 14th there is the counterfoil of the cheque to Mr. Edwards for 210L. ? — On the 14th, Friday, that is.

  • 5592.

    Yes. I may take it there are no other cheques in this book for money paid to Mr. Emmerson or Mr. Edwards ? — Quite so. I could show you any account books which I brought down ; there are a great lot of them. There are no more cheques of any kind.

  • 5593.

    Do you know at all who it was actually brought the money down ? — Yes, Mr. Charles Foord, one of the members of the firm.

  • 5594.

    Did you see him when he came ? — No, I did not see him. On the afternoon of Saturday I was at Deal and he was at Sandwich.

  • 5595.

    I understand you that your belief is Mr. Edwards met him on the platform at Sandwich ? — I was informed so.

  • 5596.

    Can you tell me the name of your informant ? — I think his brother, Alderman Foord, a member of the firm, told me so, but I am not quite certain.

  • 5597.

    Your information came through Mr. Foord ? — Through his brother, I think. There are several members of the firm. The whole firm know of all the payments that have been made for me.

  • 5598.

    Do you know how the money was divided when it arrived here between Mr. Edwards and Mr. Emmerson ? — I know now, but I did not know at the time. Mr. Lewis told me I think, but I cannot say exactly when. I dare say Mr. Lewis can remember.

  • 5599.

    You did not know how much each of them had ? — I had not the faintest idea. I thought Mr. Edwards had it all.

  • 5600.

    You did not know that Mr. Emmerson had received a great part of it ? — I did not think Mr. Emmerson had a penny.

  • 5601.

    Did you have any conversation with Mr. Ed- wards about this money after it arrived ? — Mr. Edwards when he came back informed me that he had received the money, and, as I said, my very strong impression was, handed me Mr. Charles Foord, with his compliments.

  • 5602.

    I understand you to say that you were aware that considerable sums were being expended on POLES, colours, FLAGS, and so forth ? — I do not think anybody with eyes in his head could help being aware of it. +++

  • 5603.

    You say that no application was made to you by Mr. Edwards to ask you if you would sanction it ? — I said to Mr. Edwards that l thought that it was gross, the expenditure upon FLAGS, POLES, and colours, and I asked him to stop it, and he said he would, and it went on just the same as before, if not worse. There were FLAGS and colours put up on the day of the election. I saw them putting up POLES, and, I suppose, I am to pay for them.

  • 5604.

    I understand you to say you did remonstrate against it ? — Over and over again, and to all my friends. Mr. McAlister came to me not long ago to point out that I had discussed it with him and said how monstrous it was, and Mr. James, Mr. Cunningham, and Ms cousin, Mr. Otway, everybody who came near me. I was in a state of boiling indignation most of the time about this.

  • 5605.

    Did you say anything to anybody else with a view of stopping it, besides Mr. Edwards ? — No ; I had no other agent except Mr. Edwards.

  • 5606.

    I suppose this was principally confined to Deal and Walmer ? — Yes ; I thought Sandwich was very well conducted. I liked Sandwich. I wished Mr. Emmerson had taken me more to Sandwich.

  • 5607.

    Now as to the engagement of PUBLIC-HOUSES. Did you give any directions with regard to it, or interfere at all with reference to that matter ? — No. I said I thought the engagement of PUBLIC-HOUSES was gross, for us as well as the other side ; and it was with a view to a petition. And for that reason I had a list prepared of theirs as well as ours, which I handed to Mr. Lewis.

  • 5608.

    Had they been engaged before they came, do you know ? — I do not know at all. My strong impression is, they were engaged.

  • 5609.

    Before you came to Deal ? — Yes.

  • 5610.

    You expressed your opinion, you say, that the number of PUBLIC-HOUSES was gross and excessive ? — Yes.

  • 5611.

    To whom did you express that opinion ? — I think I said it openly to any number of people. I dare say to Mr. King, and I dare say to a lot of other people. I told Mr. Edwards too. I believe I told everybody. I think they did not like me at all, because I was too open- mouthed.

  • 5612.

    Did you say anything to Mr. Edwards as to the employment of persons ? — My impression is I did, but I have no recollection of any specific conversation.

  • 5613.

    I do not know whether you have seen the papers, but we have been told by a witness named Coleman, that at Sandwich he engaged some seven PUBLIC-HOUSES on the understanding that they should use their influence with their clientelle to vote on behalf of the Liberals. Were you aware of that ? — No. Mr. Emmerson introduced me to Mr. Coleman, but I knew of no arrangement. I did not trouble myself about the Sandwich arrangements, for I had perfect confidence in Mr. Emmerson.

  • 5614.

    You did not know that had been done ? — No.

  • 5615.

    Mr. Coleman told us he went about with you for some little time calling on people ? — Mr. Emmerson introduced me, I think.