Emmerson, Richard Joynes | Day 1

James Barber Edwards testified that he received £1300 from Charles Ross Foord of Rochester who had brought £1500 in gold sovereigns to Sandwich by train. Emmerson met him with James Barber Edwards and they split the money between them. £1300 went to Mr Edwards and £200 to Mr Emmerson. Mr Emerson received two further amounts of £210 and £350. The latter was paid by Messrs Lewis and Lewis.

Witness Type: Briber, Freeman, Treater

Party: Liberal

Other Days The Witness Was Called On: Day 2 | Day 14

Witness Testimony:

  • 387.

    Perhaps you will kindly let us have them ? – I will do so.

  • 388.

    Was any sum mentioned, or anything said about the sum which Mr. Crompton Roberts was spending ? – No ; I was living at Sandwich ; I had no idea.

  • 389.

    What was said with regard to Mr. Crompton Roberts ? – It was only understood that he was spending a great deal of money here. It was simply rumour. Nobody could point out how it was, and if you asked in what way you could not ascertain.

  • 390.

    Do you remember what was said by these gentlemen to Sir John Adye about the expenditure of Mr. Crompton Roberts ? – It was spoken of in a general way that great expenses were being incurred, and would have to be incurred, and therefore if he was not prepared, it would be better for him to retire ; in fact, they could not entertain him.

  • 391.

    It was no use coming here unless he was willing to spend a considerable sum of money ? – Yes.

  • 392.

    You say you think 2,000L. was mentioned ? – I think he was told 2,000L.

  • 393.

    Was it not more than that ? – I do not think I mentioned more than 2,000L., and I think I told him that he would spend that in canvassing between Sandwich and Deal. I found at once he was not prepared to go through a contested election, and he at once said, “Then I am not prepared to spend the money.” It was an easy thing for me when he came to Deal to introduce him, and to say, “Sir John Adye is not prepared to contest a contested election,” and then he would have passed from Deal.

  • 394.

    You think you cannot fight a contested election without spending 2,000L. and upwards ? – Yes.

  • 395.

    Why is that ? – Simply on account of the great expenses which are incurred, many of them of a most irregular character, with regard to FLAGS, booths, and every expenditure of that kind, which is a very serious matter.

  • 396.

    You think you cannot fight an election here without spending money in that way ? – From what I hear. I am not here on the spot. I only hear of it afterwards. Sandwich is comparatively a smaller thing as far as that goes.

  • 397.

    But you think, from what you have heard and know, that you cannot fight an election here unless you are prepared to spend a very considerable sum of money in FLAGS, public-houses, and canvassers ? – Yes, I am obliged to state that as my candid opinion.

  • 398.

    You cannot fight an election except by employing a great number of persons. Then Sir John Adye, as I understand you, intimated that he would not contest the borough ? – He said he was not prepared to fight a contested election at all, and that he had come down here under the impression that the seat would not be contested.

  • 399.

    Then you communicated with Sir Julian Goldsmid ? – Then I communicated again with Sir Julian Goldsmid, and he wrote to me to say that he was one of the selected candidates for the University, and he could not give me a decided answer until the selection there was decided. Then I went up to him and said, “I must have an answer this very day. If you will say ‘No, you will not go down to the borough,’ I shall seek a candidate.”

  • 400.

    And Sir Julian Goldsmid came back ? – And Sir Julian Goldsmid came back.

  • 401.

    I suppose you had some conversation with him as to ways and means, and what was necessary in order to give him a chance of success ? – Yes, but there was no precise amount mentioned.

  • 402.

    Tell us what took place between you and him with regard to that ? – In general words, I told him he could not contest the election for less than 3,000L.

  • 403.

    And, I presume, his coming down intimated that he was willing to spend that amount ? – No ; he most indignantly replied that he could spend no money except upon legal expenses and so on ; but, having stated all that, he returned, and there was no further conversation. He did not assent to expenditure except legal expenditure ; but, on the contrary, he would not be returned by bribery, or anything of the kind. He afterwards returned to Sandwich with me.

  • 404.

    Do you know what amount Sir Julian Goldsmid did pay down to either yourself or other agents ? – Yes, I know what I received myself and I have heard of the sum which Mr. Edwards received.

  • 405.

    I will not ask you what you heard was paid to Mr. Edwards, but what did you receive yourself ? – I received 700L. odd ; 760L. I think. I received sums of 210L, 200L. and 350L.

  • 406.

    Have you the dates on which those payments were made ? – I have not the dates. I thought you would not examine me in detail this afternoon.

  • 407.

    With a view of not troubling you a second time I thought when you came here in an official capacity we would go into the other matters ? – I have not the dates when I received the amounts.

  • 408.

    You say he came down with you on the 10th May ? – Yes.

  • 409.

    When did you receive the first cheque after that ? – On the Thursday I received 200L.

  • 410.

    On the Thursday after ? – Yes.

  • 411.

    That was the 13th ? – Yes. On the following day I had 210L. more. Then Messrs. Lewis and Lewis remitted me afterwards, to pay the expenses, 350L. ; that is since the election and since the petition.

  • 412.

    Then what you had before the petition was 410L. ; 200L. on the 13th and 210L. on the 14th. Was that all you had before the petition ? – Yes.

  • 413.

    Since the petition what have you received ? – I received 350L. the other day from Messrs. Lewis and Lewis.

  • 414.

    Had you at the time when Sir Julian Goldsmid came down any organisation in Sandwich on the Liberal side ? – I had organised as far as I possibly could, the time being very limited, by dividing the list of electors amongst our friends who would take them. We divided them among ourselves to go and canvass. There was that organisation and nothing else.

  • 415.

    I mean was there any standing organisation at that time when Sir Julian Goldsmid came down ? – No, none whatever.

  • 416.

    No Liberal Association ? – No.