Emmerson, Richard Joynes | Day 14
James Barber Edwards testified that he received £1300 from Charles Ross Foord of Rochester who had brought £1500 in gold sovereigns to Sandwich by train. Emmerson met him with James Barber Edwards and they split the money between them. £1300 went to Mr Edwards and £200 to Mr Emmerson. Mr Emerson received two further amounts of £210 and £350. The latter was paid by Messrs Lewis and Lewis.
Party: Liberal
Other Days The Witness Was Called On: Day 1 | Day 2
Witness Testimony:
- 16703.
Recalled and fuurther examined. (Mr. Turner.) You were the election agent for Sandwich and Walmer at the unopposed election ? — No, for Sandwich.
- 16704.
Is that the return of the expenses incurred at Sandwich at that election (handing a paper) ? — Yes. That is the return to which I was a party.
- 16705.
We have heard Mr Brown’s account this morning as to the circumstances under which he certified it. There is an item: “Bell Hotel, £24 10s 1d.” How was that incurred ? — I think it was a luncheon after the election by the members themselves after they returned from the hall, and I think the staff and committee joined in the lunch. There was also some lunch consumed in another room at which not only ourselves but any friends of Mr Hugessen and Mr Brassey joined. It was simply a lunch, and we joined in it.
- 16706.
That was after the election was over ? — Yes, before they went away to London.
- 16707.
Then, “Carriage hire, £11 16s 6d.” ? — Yes. That was for one bill at sandwich. I think, and one bill at Walmer.
- 16708.
For the use of the candidates ? — Yes, they were down a few days before, and they had carriages themselves for going to Walmer, and calling about upon their friends.
- 16709.
Then there is your fee as agent for Mr Hugessen ? — Yes. I received £100.
- 16710.
And from Mr Brassey, ditto ? — Yes.
- 16711.
Is that the usual fee ? — I stand in a particular position. I have had communications to make for the last six years, and I am always standing in the position of perhaps not agent, but a friend whose services are acknowledged when the opportunity presents itself. There was no agreement.
- 16712.
Was all this money bona fide expended upon the unopposed election ? — Yes, it was.
- 16713.
Were there any other moneys expended, which you know of, besides this ? — No.
- 16714.
None whatever ? — No.
- 16715.
Either by you or by anybody else that you know of ? — No, none whatever. There is one thing that I wish to correct today: I was asked by the court, I think, upon the first day of my examination, or my second examination it may be, whether the 1874 election was a pure election, and I answered that it was. But when I was asked that question (Mr. Jeune., I think it was who asked it of me), I was under the impression that I was being examined in reference to the 1880 election and my answer was given in reference to that. I want to put myself right upon the point. It appears that I misunderstood the question, and when I said it was a pure election I thought that the question referred to the 1880 election instead of the 1874 election.
- 16716.
Do you consider that a pure election ? — I said it was but my answer was in reference to the 1880 election.
- 16717.
You say now that the uncontested election of 1880 was a pure election ? — Yes.
- 16718.
You do not wish to state now your belief that the election of 1874 was a pure election ? — No, I do not. It must be remembered that i only represented one part of the borough, and it would have been perfectly absurd for me to have said anything of the sort as to Deal or Walmer.
- 16719.
(Mr. Holl.) Was there any arrangement or agreement you should have £100 from each candidate ? — No. None whatever.
- 16720.
No promise of that if you would make things smooth ? — No, nothing of the kind.
- 16721.
Are you aware of anything being spent at that election beyond what is mentioned in this account ? — No. I do not know of any.
- 16722.
What is your present recollection with regard to the day upon which you received the £200 ? — I have been thinking of that, and to the best of my belief it was upon the Friday. I think the money came down upon the Friday, and that was the day before the nomination. Sir Julian Goldsmid in his examination said it was upon the Saturday, but it could not have been upon the Saturday simply because it was the day of nomination and we were all of us engaged together until we returned to Deal in the afternoon at half-past three. And, therefore, it is impossible that I could have seen anyone upon the Saturday, and, as I have already said, I believe it was upon the Friday.
- 16723.
How did that money come into your possession? Tell us what occurred when it came down ? — Simply this: that it was handed out before me and Mr Edwards, and he took so much, and I took the other.
- 16724.
Where did you first see the person? Did anyone bring the person who brought the money ? — No, not at all; I met him at the station. Sir Julian Goldsmid stated in his statement here that Mr Edwards did so, but that was an inaccuracy. It was I who met the gentleman at the station, and he returned with me to my office in a fly. Mr Edwards happened to be coming to me upon that morning in the ordinary course of business, and he was present, and the money was divided in that way. I was asked what I wanted, and I said, “Give me what you like.” I had £200 at all events.
- 16725.
The person who met Mr Foord at the station was yourself ? — Yes.
- 16726.
How came you to go to meet Mr Foord ? — It must have been intimated to me by Sir Julian Goldsmid. I can hardly recollect how it was, but I can recollect Sir Julian Goldsmid stated that he did not like being appealed to so frequently for money or cheques, and he said, “I must make some arrangements with my friends to provide the money.” And as he told you the other day he met Mr Belsey and it was arranged then, and after that I must have had a message from Sir Julian Goldsmid, or an intimation, and I went to the station expecting to meet this gentleman, and he did come, and returned with me to my office.
- 16727.
In fact, your recollection is that any intimation to meet this gentleman was to you, and not to Mr Edwards ? — Mr Edwards brought it about by asking for money, and Sir Julian Goldsmid said he did not like being asked for money and he said, “I must make some arrangements about it.” In fact he was annoyed about it, and when Mr Belsey came down to the meeting he arranged with him to supply this money through his friends. I think that was the real solution of it. I must have heard of it through Sir Julian Goldsmid, and I went to meet this gentleman accordingly.
- 16728.
You remember Sir Julian Goldsmid told us that his recollection was that he directed Mr Edwards to go to the station, but you say that is not so ? — lt could not have been so.
- 16729.
The intimation was to you to go to the station —Yes, and I did go.
- 16730.
And you think that you got that intimation from Sir Julian Goldsmid ? — Yes. I do not think anybody else could have conveyed it.
- 16731.
(Mr. Jeune.) Sir Julian Goldsmid, or somebody, must have told you the exact train by which the man was coming ? — Yes, very probably. I should think he must, because I went to meet a particular train. I must state this positively, that I had no written communication from anyone, and I can only suppose that Sir Julian Goldsmid must have told me himself, or I must have had a message to say that this gentleman would come down by the midday train.
- 16732.
It was a peculiar occurrence, you see. Does not your recollection go further than that ? — No, not at all. I came over here every day in the afternoon, and very probably Sir Julian Goldsmid might have said to me in passing, “You will receive that money tomorrow,” or something of that kind. I cannot bring my mind recollect how it was. There was no particular conversation with with regard to it that I recollect at all.