Testimonies

Crompton-Roberts, Charles Henry | Day 16

Witness Type: Candidate / MP

Party: Conservative

Other Days The Witness Was Called On: Day 17 | Day 20

Witness Testimony:

• 18117.

  (Mr. Holl.) You were a candidate at the election of May last for Sandwich and Deal ? — I was.

• 18118.

  When did you first become in any way connected with Sandwich, or first entertain the idea of becoming a candidate for Sandwich ? — After the sudden dissolution of Parliament.

• 18119.

  In this year ? — Yes.

• 18120.

  With whom did you have any communication upon that matter ? — My solicitor, Mr. Spofforth. I have stated it all here in my statement, and perhaps it would be more convenient to read it.

• 18121.

  If you have any statement that you would like to make, or to read to the Commissioners by all means do so? -I understood it was more in accordance with your wishes, and I have put it down in this form :

  “I resisted the desire of entering Parliament until I could be in a position to represent a county. This opportunity arose last year, and I was before the electors of Monmouthshire for some months as their intended candidate, but retired in favour of the present junior member for that county.

  “Hearing that Sandwich wanted a Conservative, my solicitor sent his clerk, who was born in the borough, to make inquiries, and he learnt that Knatchbull-Hugessen and Brassey were much liked, all believing them at heart to be Conservatives, and that therefore it was useless to think of fighting against them; but that as it was well known Hugessen strongly objected to Gladstone’s peace at any price policy, he would be sure to be shunted into the Lords with the first good colonial appointment open to him, and that then the party would welcome a Conservative, and they believed they could be sure of returning one. As both the late members were strangers to the borough, as far as living a long way off, a perfect stranger would be welcomed, there being no local Conservative or Whig who wished to enter Parliament. Mr. Spofforth told me I had better hear direct from his clerk all he had learnt about the borough before deciding to hold myself open to represent it, if called up, and from him I gathered that the general gossip of the place was that Mr. Tom Brassey was the first to pay heavily in his attempt to win the borough, his father having said he would get him in at any price, but he failed.

  “That Henry Brassey’s two winning elections cost 25,000L., or some 11L. 4s. 6d. or 11L. 2s. 6d. per vote, he finding the money for himself and Knatchbull-Hugessen, because the latter did all the speaking. That it was commonly reported that many of the voters only actually got sums varying from 58., 10s., 20s., or 40s. of this money, and that the balance stuck to the fingers of the distributors, one of whom had lately died, leaving (for him) a large property. The method employed was, the distributors promised for the candidates so much money per man, and then as the money was some time in expectation, the promises of future payment were bought up for small sums by the distributors, which system was probably unknown to the candidates. As these two elections were before the Ballot Act came into operation, it would probably all be on the square at the next fight, although it might be expensive.

  “On some Wednesday or Thursday in April, my solicitor received a letter to say the party would like to see Mr. Crompton Roberts, if he would receive a deputation, to which a reply was sent, that to save time I would come down by the 7.40 a.m. train on the following day. I did so, and hoped to return at night, but was met at the station and told to go to the “Royal Hotel,” where some gentlemen would see me at 12 o’clock. At this meeting of some three to five, I was asked to remain until six, to see a larger meeting, which I addressed, and by whom I was questioned on my politics. “They asked me to retire, and having kept me waiting a long time, regretted to have appeared so rude, but said that there were four candidates in the field, and that therefore they could not make up their minds that evening. As I could not then get back in time, even by driving to Dover, I asked all those who would like, to stay to dine with me, when they would have a chance of getting better acquainted. Some did so, and I left for London by the first train in the morning. I should, however, mention, that just as dinner was announced, one of the other candidates arrived. So as to be perfectly fair with him, I asked him to be my guest, that this section of the inhabitants might have a good opportunity of judging between us.

  “On the following Tuesday, without any previous intimation, I was telegraphed for from Deal, and left within an hour. I believe I addressed the electors once or twice that night. I was anxious my solicitor, Mr. Spofforth, should have accompanied me, but he did not know if he might not be interfering with some local solicitor, and so I went to learn about this, and report.

  “As Lord Braborne’s patent was not gazetted, it was uncertain how many weeks the contest would last, Mr. Spofforth fearing his engagements would not permit him to give me his undivided attention, selected and sent me down the most celebrated electioneering agent of the day, Mr. Hughes, and wrote me, that he had better be my expenses agent, and that I might leave him to act for me with perfect confidence in every matter, as I should if he had been able to come himself.

  “Having been a very hard worker all my life, and knowing the importance of a few hours start with a political adversary, I worked from early morning until late at night, disregarding my meals, and feeling severely the effects of the disorganisation of the Conservative party.

  “Had I had the confidence of the borough a week before they finally sent for me, I could have canvassed every voter in half the hours I subsequently found necessary, as I am intimately acquainted with minute organisation. Your Commissioners have little idea of 28 Oct. 1880. the labour of such a canvass, with no numbers on many of the doors, and messengers as sent with me very frequently not knowing where voters lived. In Sandwich things were infinitely better prepared for my canvass. I canvassed most of the opposite side, as well as those who were known Conservatives, and had much support from total abstainers, as my brothers had for years set that example to their men with a view to influence them for their good.

  “To canvass must be hard work for anyone, but the most painful trial is to those who have been free-handed all their lives, to feel that they cannot relieve the misery they come across in a house to house visitation. In one house, I suddenly entered into a room, partially below the level of the street, where the woman burst into tears on my mentioning the object of my visit, and I had to retire on learning that they had just returned from the funeral of one child, having buried another the previous week, and that they had no food in the house. I am not quite sure these were the actual words used, but I believe they were. I could not get this scene out of my head all night, as to promise them future help would be just as bad as giving money before the election, and, therefore, told the messenger who accompanied me on the following morning that if it must be I would sooner lose the election by giving something in this case rather than be heartless enough to pass over such misery, and that he was therefore to take some money for that man for me, but to tell him not to vote. I do not know the man’s name or whether he was a Conservative or Blue as I retired as soon as I had apologised for my intrusion on their affliction.

  “With regard to taking so many public-houses I mentioned to Mr. Hughes (I think on meeting him in the street) that I thought it hardly fair to my opponent to take so many. He said that he wanted them for advertising stations, and that there would be plenty left for the other side. On another occasion when telling Mr. Hughes that I was being bothered by people catching hold of me in the streets and asking if they might not have some flags, he replied flags are illegal and I cannot authorise any until the other side start it.

  “On Tuesday I heard Sir Julian had arrived and was to be my opponent. I met him within an hour and introduced myself hoping we should both work in a gentlemanly and pleasant way, for that I would sooner lose my chance of a seat in Parliament than my character as a gentleman. Within half an hour Sandwich was decked out in blue flags, which I thought must have come from some of Sir Julian’s previous elections as they were so good and rapidly displayed.

  “On my return to Deal I found blue flags everywhere, and one putting up between my house and one Sir Julian had thoughtfully taken next door to me, which was eventually covered with flaglets beautifully specifying all the leading Liberals, ministers, &c. with Bradlaugh among the number. We, therefore, on our side put up flags with my approval following the lead of Sir Julian and his party.

  “Hearing that Sir Julian was to be made a Forester I thought I had better become one likewise, as I had heard very favourable reports of this society from my workmen, of whom several belonged to it, and after addressing a meeting in the Guildhall, Sandwich, I drove over to Walmer and found Sir Julian waiting my arrival to be introduced to the lodge which was held at a blue house. Before our introduction I asked Sir Julian to take care we neither did anything illegal, and to kindly look after me as well as himself, as he had so much more experience than I had in election matters. The meeting was a close one, and we were either told or had it pointed out in the rules, that politics were never permitted to be broached at them.

  “Having understood that it was usual for new members to stand glasses round, I asked the president’s permission to order them, and they were supplied at my expense, on which Sir Julian told me I was sailing very near the wind.

  “I hear Sir Julian has made some statement that Mrs. Crompton Roberts gave some grocer an order for 20L. worth of goods. Mrs. Crompton Roberts has for many years had in her service a housekeeper, who attends to all such duties, if any goods were really ordered I will produce the bill. I may state that generally any tradesman from whom we purchased goods gave us full and fair value for our money, as far as was reported to us, in every way. In some cases, particularly wine, I had grave doubts as to whether I was nearly so well supplied in London by my wine merchants with whom I have dealt for nearly 30 years.

  “With regard to fireworks I heard that 20L. worth had been ordered for the Bank Holiday Regatta, and having on, I think, two occasions spent more than this sum on fireworks for my children’s birthday, I knew nothing worth giving the town could be had for that money, unless they got them very much cheaper than I could in London, I sent my butler privately to Messrs. Frost to learn (as if for his own information) what was going to be given for 20L. (not 50L. as stated by Sir Julian), and that if he thought the display would be too shabby he was to add what money from me he thought necessary. He reported that a much better display was to be given than I should have thought the money would provide, but that he had added 5L. to the order that had been given, and that he had paid the money. My reason for thus keeping this matter secret was that I did not wish anyone to think I was careless about the expenditure, or dissatisfied with their arrangements.

  “The large inherited wealth of Sir Julian Goldsmid, and his known anxiety to re-enter the House after his late defeats, influenced my agent and supporters, and, no doubt, led to the determination not to be outdone by the other side.

  “I am told that Sir Julian says that there were lots of treating and drunkenness at the election. I can safely say I never saw but one man a little gone all the time I was in the borough, and that I have never heard of any Conservative treating; but your Commissioners will by this time know more about the truth of this assertion than I can. Suffice it to say that although my opponent had made himself unpopular by rattling at people’s doors if they did not at once answer his knock, yet on my request the crowd that had waited at Upper Deal to draw me home on my way back from Sandwich after the declaration of the poll, quietly dispersed in two or three minutes after I had addressed them and asked them to go quietly home to bed, when I appealed to their feelings by reminding them that was a pleasure to me must be painful to my next door neighbour who had lost.

  “I understand that Royal Commissioners are not governed by the ordinary rules of evidence, and that when before you there may be something needing an explanation, or that has gone from my mind until a question may bring it back to me.

  “Probably such stories as the following you may have heard, viz., the report that my opponent intended to retire before the nomination day, as he found he made so little way, and was so disliked by the electors, until his agents assured him that he would win if he continued the fight, and that he only did so on the conditions that they bore the further expense in the case of his failure, and he, if he won. They, thinking to win, accepted some such terms, believing that if they did their best a millionaire gentleman would recoup them, and it was only on losing, and hearing that they hoped he would make good to them what they were out of pocket, the petition was decided upon.

  “Let the above be wholly gossip, or partially true, this is the fragmentary tale that reached my ears, and explained why he should present a petition after his agents had been shown Liberal money received by Conservatives, while the votes were being cast up.

  “I saw Sir Julian at the Orleans Club and asked him there if there was anything in my public speeches that had given him offence and a reason for his petitioning, when he told me I had treated him in a very gentlemanly way.

  “I afterwards heard the tale I have mentioned above coupled with the ‘on dit’ in every quarter, that the useless money outlay was the sore point with Sir Julian, I asked a mutual friend to find out the reason for Sir Julian’s hostility, because gentlemen do not usually petition when beaten with their own weapons, and although I told my friend I might stoop to offer to give up the seat and pay his expenses sooner than have the borough disfranchised where I had served my apprenticeship, although a costly one, I never for a moment expected that Sandwich, or any borough, would elect Sir Julian after he had made the place so hot.

  “This idea may appear Quixotic on my part until you consider that I did not wish to throw more good money after bad, as my private solicitor had told me he believed from his investigations that I could not preserve the seat.

  “As Sir Julian had commenced the bribery it was thought this would have great weight with him, but perhaps he did not then think that that would saddle him with all the costs of getting up the petition. I feel it is useless my telling the Commissioners that hardly anyone knew less than I did, or was more astonished than I was, at the revelations extracted by the Commissioners. When I received the particulars for the petition I was astonished, and could not believe there was any truth in them until Mr. Spofforth informed me that there must be some fire where there was so much smoke. I was kept hard at work canvassing from the time of my arrival until the day of election, and was told I must not relax even for a day to attend to my business if I wished to succeed.

  “I had the misfortune to break my tooth on the Sunday before going to Deal, and had an appointment with my dentist on the Wednesday after having gone down there, so that was in agony every time I spoke, while wearing a hole in my cheek, but was told by Mr. Hughes that I must not relax my efforts, and that he meant to win me the election if he killed the candidate. If the borough was to be won in any but a legal way why make me work harder than ever I did in my life for a fortnight. I now believe I had won the election by fair means, and that Sir Julian’s wealth frightened my assistants and made them at last distribute money inconsiderately. I do not believe undue influence was intended by taking the public-houses, nor that more than the 51. was paid to any except where stated, nor that Mr. Hughes was at all aware at the time how near some houses were to the others when he allowed them to be engaged. I think Mr. Hughes will tell you that he never was in the town before.’ I was unaware that any other illegal thing (besides what I have named) was going on, and I believe I have given you a conscientious statement of facts.

  “I trust that the Commissioners will bear in mind that the issuing of this writ was delayed, although it might have been brought on much earlier, until-various Liberal candidates had felt the pulse of the borough. and that for some days it was not known if the issue of the writ might not be delayed until after the holidays.

  “It is probable that, had Sir Julian’s vanity not been sorely hurt by the great majority with which he was beaten, this Commission would never have been issued; and I hope that you will in your judgment kindly contrast my utter inexperience in these matters with his legal education and his experience from repeated elections and defeats.

  “Your Commissioners will desire to know what money was used by my side at this election and when the money was provided. Having ridden to business, where the telegram followed me on the morning of the day I was summoned to Deal, I had to go home to change, and in my hurry went without cash or cheque book; indeed I did not know but what I should be able to return on the following day to put my business and house in order for an absence.

  “Before post time at Deal I wrote a cheque for 500L. to the order of my partner for security in transmission through the post, requesting him to take it himself to the bank, as there might be some difficulty in their cashing it as it was not on a printed form, and requested him to remit the proceeds by Mr. Spofforth, who I then expected was coming down to work the election for me. As Mr. Spofforth did not come to Deal, the money was brought me by Mr. Thomas, whom I desired to keep it, and pay ready money for everything, as I had all my life paid cash for every purchase and would not like to run into debt.

  “Having summoned several friends to my assistance, taken a house, and sent for some servants, the latter brought me down my cheque book.

  “In about three or four days Mr. Hughes required another 500L., which I gave him, and on his again asking me for money I told him I must go up to London, as I did not know how my account stood, as I did not keep my private accounts. He said, ‘Give me what you think you can spare, and then if I want more I can send to your partner; he will be sure to find the funds if you pencil him a note’; which I wrote while the train stood at the Sandwich station; this cheque was for 600L., also made payable to Mr. Hoare, so that he would put it right for me if my account was overdrawn. In response to my note, I learnt sometime after the election was over that my partner had advanced 1,400L.; and, having heard from town that there was plenty of money on deposit, as 4,000L. had been moved from my current account at the commencement of the month, I subsequently drew three cheques of 500L. each and two for 1,000L. each, making altogether the total drawings for my election 6,500L., viz., 4,000L. to the order of Mr. Hughes and 500L., 600L, and 1,400L. as detailed above.” That, gentlemen, is the exact state of the case.

• 18122.

  What day was it that you first went down to Sandwich ? I am not alluding to the day when you went down to meet some gentleman there and returned ; but I am speaking of me time when you were summoned down upon the report that Mr. Hugessen was about to be raised to the peerage ? — Tuesday the 4th May.

• 18123.

  Prior to that, had there been anything said to you as to what would be the probable cost of contesting the borough ? — Only what I have stated I gleaned from Mr. Spofforth’s clerk.

• 18124.

  What amount was that ? — There was no sum named.

• 18125.

  Are you alluding to the report that there had been 26,000L. spent in the two elections ? — What Mr. Spofforth’s clerk said, “As these two elections were before ” the Ballot Act came into operation it would probably “be all on the square at the next fight, although it might be expensive” ; that was the only information I had.

• 18126.

  You had no information beyond the rumour of previous expenditure and a suggestion that at the next election things would be on the square, but would be expensive ? — Yes, that is all.

• 18127.

  No sum was mentioned to you ? — No.

• 18128.

  You went down one day before Mr. Hughes, I think ? — Yes.

• 18129.

  Did you take any steps when you went down then before his arrival beyond your canvassing ? — I spoke at two meetings, I think.

• 18130.

  I suppose you met some of the leading men of the Conservative party ? — Yes, I met a great many men whose faces I had never seen before.

• 18131.

  Did you know anything at all about the public-houses having been engaged by Mr. Olds or anybody prior to Mr. Hughes coming down ? — No, nothing at all.

• 18132.

  Do I understand that you left the management of the election mainly in Mr. Hughes’ hands ? — Entirely.

• 18133.

  You have told us that you spoke to him about thinking the number of PUBLIC-HOUSES excessive, and that you made some observation in respect of the FLAGS, but beyond what you have told us did you interfere in any way in the expenditure upon FLAGS, PUBLIC-HOUSES, ROSETTES, or any such expenses ? — I did nothing but canvass and speak at public meetings.

• 18134.

  Were you aware of the extent to which Mr. Hughes was embarking in any of those expenditures ? — No, not the slightest. I did not know he was spending any money that way.

• 18135.

  With regard to the employment of canvassers and messengers, were you aware of what was being done ? — I was not consulted about anything.

• 18136.

  Were you at all made acquainted as to the number being employed, or being paid ? — I had nothing to do with it in any way — I knew nothing. I never was in an election before, and knew nothing about it.

• 18137.

  There appears to have been a large sum paid by you from time to time to him, or to Mr. Thomas acting for him. Did you make any enquiry as to how that money was being expended ? — No, never.

• 18138.

  With regard to the first 500L., when was that sent down to Deal ? — Upon the 5th.

• 18139.

  Who are your bankers in London ? — The London Joint Stock.

• 18140.

  Have you any other banker in London ? — No other private banker. We have an account at the London and County, Albert Gate branch, where we keep a balance for house purposes.

• 18141.

  The London Joint Stock are your principal bankers, but you have a banking account at the London and County, Albert Gate branch ? — Yes, close to Belgrave Square.

• 18142.

  Have you no account at Glyn’s ? — No.

• 18143.

  Was this first cheque for 500L. drawn upon the London Joint Stock bank ? — Yes.

• 18144.

  And was sent up to your partner to get cashed for you ? — Yes.

• 18145.

  Here is your pass book. I think this is the cheque, “May 5th, Hoare, 500L.”

• 18146.

  (Mr. Jeune.) What does “225 ” mean ? — I do not keep my own private accounts, and that means the folio where the different things are carried in my private ledger — that acts as a cash book.