Testimonies

Olds, Samuel | Day 3

Witness Type: Briber, Councillor / Alderman, No Indemnity

Party: Conservative

Other Days The Witness Was Called On: Day 2 | Day 14

Witness Testimony:

• 2294.

  You think now the whole of it was distributed that evening ? — Yes, I think that is it. I cannot recollect to be positive.

• 2295.

  You said that they came over the next morning ; that is a mistake then ? — They may not have taken it that night ; if they came over on me morning of the election they had it then, perhaps.

• 2296.

  Did you give it them or not that night ? — I think I must, but I will not be certain ; I think they must have taken it the same night.

• 2297.

  There were a number of other persons, about 19 or 20 people, to whom you distributed money here. Just think. Did you distribute that to these persons on the same evening that you got the money, or not ? — I think it must be the same evening, I will not be quite positive; some might have been over night. Whether Giles had his overnight, and some of the others, and the rest in the morning, I will not be positive.

• 2298.

  Now do think; you told us that you thought that Giles and Hughes had the money first ? — Yes, they had theirs first ; theirs was counted out ; they gave the amount they wanted.

• 2299.

  Is that correct ? — Yes.

• 2300.

  If that is so the others must have got the money distributed to them after Giles and Hughes got it ? — Yes.

• 2301.

  Unless Giles and Hughes got there that night, and you gave the money to them then the other men could not have got it that night ? — Very likely they did, and the others might have got theirs in the morning.

• 2302.

  Cannot you remember ? — I cannot.

• 2303.

  Just think, this is 1,000L, you know; cannot you remember whether you had 1,000L. in your house lying there all night, or not ? (After a pause,) All I want you to do is to try and remember. Think it over for a few moments ; surely you must remember whether you had this money in your house that night, or whether you distributed that 1,000L. the same evening you got it or whether it was the next morning ; if you have made a mistake say so ; only think it over quietly, so as to try and remember exactly what the fact was ? — You see the election was on the Tuesday, was it not ?

• 2304.

  The election was on the Tuesday, as I understand ? — Then it must have been, as I stated before ; the man came in that night by the 3.27 train, and left it, and I think I must have distributed the whole the morning of the election, if that is the case ; in the morning previous to the election.

• 2305.

  The morning of the election is a very busy time ; cannot you remember whether you distributed it in the evening or in the morning ? — Some was distributed in the morning ; that is what it must have been — distributed in the morning before the election.

• 2306.

  You say that must have been it ? — Yes.

• 2307.

  It seems to me singular you cannot remember whether you distributed so large a sum of money as 1,000L. among all these people upon the same evening that you got it, or whether you did not distribute it on the day of the election ? — You see the men did not know it was coming.

• 2308.

  That may be. I am not asking whether you distributed the whole of it that night, but did you distribute the bulk of it ? — I know there was some I distributed in the morning.

• 2309.

  Was the bulk, or any of it, distributed the same evening ? — I do not think it was, unless it was the Sandwich people; the Sandwich people might have taken theirs back with them.

• 2310.

  And then you might have opened the bag that night ? — Yes.

• 2311.

  Did not you count it to see what was left ? — I never counted it.

• 2312.

  Cannot you tell me with more certainty whether you did pay the Sandwich people that evening, or whether you distributed it all the next morning ? — I am under the impression that Giles called upon me that night and came early the next morning ; drove over, I think early the next morning.

• 2313.

  And fetched it ? — Yes, and fetched it ; and I think before they were gone the others came in, and it was all gone in about a couple of hours. It must have been on the morning of the election.

• 2314.

  You think now your first impression was correct, and it was all distributed on the morning of the election ? — Yes ; you see I am a little confused as to dates, and cannot recollect.

• 2315.

  Was it distributed on the evening of the day you got it or the next morning ? — It was the morning ; it must have been.

• 2316.

  So you think now it was the morning of the election ? — Yes.

• 2317.

  Did you tell Mr. Hughes what you had done with it that day ? — I told him I had had some money come; I do not know who from; he said, “I do not know anything about it.”

• 2318.

  Do you say you told him the day you got it ? — The day after, I think.

• 2319.

  Which was it ; when did you tell Mr. Hughes ? It was an important matter, getting so much money as 1,000L. left with you in this mysterious manner. Did not you communicate with Mr. Hughes, who was your principal ; you took your directions from him, did you not ? — I did.

• 2320.

  Did you or did you not communicate to him the fact of your having had this man’s visit, and having had this large sum left with you ; did you communicate that to him at once ? — I did; he took no notice, and said, “It is nothing to do with me.”

• 2321.

  Did you do it the same day ? — As soon as I received the money ; the same day.

• 2322.

  Are you sure of that ? — Yes.

• 2323.

  You communicated the fact to him that you had it the same day that you got it ? — Yes, that I had received a bag of money.