Testimonies

Testimonies

• 225.

  Then, of course, you did not. I do not know whether when you were down here you devoted yourself at all to inquiring whether there had been any corrupt practices on Sir Julian Goldsmid’s behalf ? – I did not. Incidentally, I had reason to believe that there had been, but I did not follow it out in a legal manner.

• 226.

  Have you got any information you could give us with regard to anything that you heard of corrupt practices on the part of the Liberals at the contested election ? – Only rumour.

• 227.

  Of course, there may be rumour and rumour, Can you give us anything that would suggest corrupt practices on the part of Sir Julian Goldsmid or his agents ; did you hear of anything ? – I did not. Rumours, of course, were rife, but I never inquired, I never attempted to get up a recriminatory case, as the seat was not prayed.

• 228.

  You did not direct any inquiries to be made with regard to anything Sir Julian Goldsmid and his agents had done, did you ? – I did direct inquiries. In the first instance I did that because counsel advised I should inquire, but it was determined to abandon that part of the case, and nothing practically was done ; no evidence was obtained against Sir Julian Goldsmid.

• 229.

  Did you send someone down to make inquiries as to the doings on the Liberal side at the contested election ? – I did not.

• 230.

  Your clerk I mean ? – I had a clerk who was a voter here, and Mr. Crompton Roberts asked me to allow him to accompany him as a sort of secretary, as he knew the place, and I did allow him to accompany him, but only really as his private secretary in his capacity as clerk. To tell you the truth, I did not make the charge to Mr. Crompton Roberts, which I was entitled to for his services.

• 231.

  What was that clerk’s name ? – Simmonds. He is in my service now.

• 232.

  When the petition was presented, you did begin to make some inquiries as regards the conduct of the election on the Liberal side ? – I did.

• 233.

  Who made those inquiries for you ? – I made them myself, incidentally. One or two gentlemen in the town gave me information.

• 234.

  And you followed it up to some extent ? – What you mean by that is, evidence against Sir Julian.

• 235.

  Yes ? – Well, I did not. The only evidence I really followed up to any extent was an attempt at subornation by the petitioner’s solicitor. It was subornation against a man named Elliott ; but that was not a case of practically bribing.

• 236.

  Against a man named Elliott you say ? Was he a voter ? – Yes, I believe he was.

• 237.

  How did that turn out ? What did you find to be the facts of that case when you came to look into it ? – The facts seemed to be, that Messrs. Lewis and Lewis had several men down here for some time, and they got hold of a man named Elliot through a man named Joe Browne, who had been, I understood, a canvasser for the Conservatives. Browne offered Elliott 30L. if he would split. Elliott said he would. He would consider about it. He was taken up to London, taken to Messrs. Lewis’ office, and underwent a long examination, I believe by Mr. George Lewis. His evidence was taken down in writing, and before he left, 5L. or 6L. was given to him in gold, and a promissory note was given to him signed by Joe Browne ; and that promissory note, I believe, is still in the possession of some gentleman.

• 238.

  Did you receive any information (whether you followed it up or not) that there had been corrupt practices on the Liberal side at the contested election ? – Only rumours.

• 239.

  Are you able to connect that rumour with any names you can give us of persons who benefited by those corrupt practices, or practised them ? – No, I cannot, for the reason that I never followed out the recriminatory charges, the seat not being claimed.

• 240.

  (Mr. Turner.) You are the town clerk of Deal ? – Yes, and also clerk to the magistrates.

• 241.

  You heard Mr. Surrage’s evidence as to the constituency of Deal and Sandwich and Walmer. Do you agree to that ? – Yes, I believe it to be correct.

• 242.

  Now tell us something about the population of Deal, and the trade of it ? – The population of Deal at the last census was a little over 8,000, and I apprehend it will be found to be increased at the next census. The trade of Deal is not very extensive. We are engaged in boat building, in supplying ships with supplies and in case of loss, and the sale of vegetables and fish. I am not aware that there is any other trade. We do a little brick making.

• 243.

  Are there many engaged in boat building ? – I think there are about four boat builder’s establishments.

• 244.

  Do they build ships here ? – No.

• 245.

  Of late years, in your opinion, has the trade decreased or increased ? – I should fancy it is very much the same. I do not think it has fluctuated much either one way or the other. Boat building I do not think is quite so good as it was. That is the only trade reduced.

• 246.

  Is the population chiefly composed of the lower class, if I may so call them ; the labouring classes ? – The population of our town is composed in great measure of watermen, men engaged at sea, a large number of Trinity pilots, the labouring class, and tradesmen, and the usual population of a country town.

• 247.

  Are there any resident gentry ? – Yes, a fair share of resident gentry.

• 248.

  You have heard Mr. Surrage’s account of the number of freemen ? – Yes, they have fallen off very much indeed.

• 249.

  With reference to your municipal elections here, are they all political ? – Not in the least. I do not think politics have ever been brought into the matter whatever.

• 250.

  How is your town council composed ? – The mayor, 6 aldermen, and 18 councillors.

• 251.

  How many go out every year ? – One-third every year, and the aldermen every three years.

• 252.

  Have you an annual election of councillors ? – Yes. I do not remember since I have been town clerk that we have ever had an election without a contest – local matters and that sort of thing – drainage or not drainage.

• 253.

  But the election depends entirely on local matters ? – Entirely.

• 254.

  And no political feeling ? – I do not think I can remember any political feeling ever being introduced.