Simmons, Daniel George Frederick | Day 17

Questioned at very great length about his expenses. He was somewhat ‘forgetful’ and ‘careless’ in his record keeping. Although he had previously lived in the area and knew many of the people involved in the election, he was rather vague about who he had dealings with!

Witness Type: Briber, Freeman, Treater

Party: Conservative

Witness Testimony:

  • 18980.

    If they were locked up she would not destroy them, surely ? — They were locked up when I was away, and after I was at home, of course, it was another matter. I never look up anything when I am at home.

  • 18981.

    Do I understand you that the whole of the balance of the £18, over and above the £7, was distributed in charity either by yourself, Mr Bristow, or Alderman Ralph ? — Yes, every penny of it. I daresay I might have some sort of recollection from which I got that when I came home.

  • 18982.

    Then you say you must have distributed in that way the £11 ? — Yes.

  • 18983.

    At the rate of £1 each, that would be eleven different people ? — Yes.

  • 18984.

    Do you mean that you have not any idea of any one of the eleven to whom this relief was given ? — Not of my own knowledge.

  • 18985.

    Who would be able to know ? Ralph and Bristow would know who they had relieved ? — Yes, I should think so.

  • 18986.

    And who were the others ? — There may have been a pound or two down there that had been spent that I have not put down as ordinary treating expenditure. Going about as I did I had to spend a great deal of money which I have put down, but I put a pound or two down under that heading.

  • 18987.

    There were a few pounds under this heading ? — Yes.

  • 18988.

    Spent in treating or in some other way ? — Yes.

  • 18989.

    Where did you treat any people, at the different public-houses ? — Yes.

  • 18990.

    They would be persons, I suppose, that you wanted to propitiate ? — Yes. Some of them might be; and here and there some, I thought, wanted a little something done.

  • 18991.

    Some friends and some persons you wanted to propitiate for voting ? — Not for voting, perhaps. I would not say that.

  • 18992.

    What else was it for ? — Well, it might have been, indirectly.

  • 18993.

    Can you give any other reason which you can suggest to us ? I rather assumed from this, being election time, that that must have been the reason ? — Yes, no doubt it was, indirectly.

  • 18994.

    I suppose, really, this £17 you were speaking of as spent on the 4th and 5th was for treating ? — It cost me more than that. I charged nothing for expenses during the time I had been about there, and you cannot make those inquiries without you do spend money.

  • 18995.

    This has nothing to do with your going down at the general election ? — No.

  • 18996.

    This is for money you say you expended in those days, and you say that they were expenses incurred in going round to public-houses. That was for treating, I presume ? — Yes.

  • 18997.

    And that would be sometimes treating your friends and sometimes treating the voters and people you wished to propitiate ? — Yes. I see I received the balance of that account on the 14th August through Mr Spofforth.

  • 18998.

    The 14th August was after the petition was over ? — Yes.

  • 18999.

    Had you got those vouchers then ? — I had got them up to that time. I had no idea they would be wanted after that.

  • 19000.

    You knew then that a Commission had been ordered ? — No, or I certainly should not have parted with them under the circumstances.

  • 19001.

    (Mr Turner) Did you keep any account of the £17 expended at the public-houses ? — No. I knew exactly what I had spent, and that is how I arrived at that conclusion. I knew I had a certain sum of money, and so I put it down at that sum.

  • 19002.

    (Mr Holl) Before the general election, when you went down, at the time you went down to make enquiries in the borough as to the probable chances of success of Mr Crompton Roberts ? — Yes.

  • 19003.

    And you told us that you understood the expenses of contesting the borough would be £5000 ? — Yes.

  • 19004.

    Who were the persons, or person, you learnt that from ? — I must have learnt it indirectly; I could not have had it given me direct, I think.

  • 19005.

    Who did you learn it from indirectly ? — That would be a very difficult thing for me to say.

  • 19006.

    You must have learnt it from somebody ; the leading people, perhaps. You went down specially to make these inquiries. From whom was it you learnt that it would cost £5000? Was it £5000 or more ? — I cannot say. I cannot say it was that; it might have been merely an answer to a leading question from myself to somebody who had answered it in that way. It is only an impression on my mind that that was the probable cost, and that it was named by someone.

  • 19007.

    You cannot remember who it was ? — No.

  • 19008.

    When you went down with Mr Roberts afterwards, and went round, at Mr Hughes’ request, to the public-houses, did you find that most of them had been engaged by Mr Olds at that time ? — I found most of them had.

  • 19009.

    You went round on the 5th ? — Yes.