Testimonies

Spofforth, Samuel | Day 2

Witness Type: Other

Party: Conservative

Other Days The Witness Was Called On: Day 1

Witness Testimony:

• 914.

  I think it must be “bribees,” for I observe the third is “he never had a penny” ? — You can check that by reference to the particulars.

• 915.

  That is true. “He never had a penny” must mean “He never had a penny to distribute” ? — Yes.

• 916.

  Now let us work it out. I see here “Spence’s men are all straight ;” and then follow three names. Does that mean that those three names were the names of that person’s men ? — It is “Smith, L. Warden, Kent” I know there is an hotel here called the “Lord Warden.” I do not know whether the man’s name is Smith.

• 917.

  What does that mean — “says his men are all straight. Smith, L. Warden, Kent.” Does that mean that Smith, and somebody connected with the “Lord Warden” and Kent were his men ? — I cannot say.

• 918.

  It looks like it, does it not ? — I cannot say really. I cannot remember what it means.

• 919.

  Does it mean that these were the persons whom this individual employed to distribute money ? — I cannot answer that question.

• 920.

  “Says his men are all straight,” what does that signify now to your mind ? — It meant this, I suppose, that I had asked him if he had done anything, and he might have said he had; and I should say, “Have you any fear of what you have done,” and he might have said, “No.”

• 921.

  Do you think it meant they were the men he employed to distribute the money, or the men he had given the money to ? — Probably the men he had given the money to.

• 922.

  It is “Smith, L. Warden, Kent,” and then it goes on, “not one of his bribees charged” ? — That means, I suppose, that no person whom he had bribed had been charged. That is me meaning of it, I have no doubt I have no hesitation in saying that That must have been my impression at the time I wrote it down.

• 923.

  I think that must be so ? — I think so — the other I cannot explain.

• 924.

  Then I see there is “W. B. Mackie,” and opposite his name is written “see below,” and then there is “all in the Downs” in inverted commas. What does that mean ? — He was at sea.

• 925.

  At sea, and wished to remain there ? — I do not know — possibly.

• 926.

  I think my conjecture is not far wrong ? — Well, they are very fond of the sea here, as of flags, and as, the town clerk of Sandwich told you yesterday, they cannot marry or be buried without a flag.

• 927.

  I think you are right I see just below, opposite the name of this person, “Not served, now in the Downs ; wife to write and tell him to stay away” ? — I do not remember making that note. As it is in my handwriting, I have no doubt it was the fact at the time.

• 928.

  I may take it, of course, that you had reason to suppose that W. F. Mackie’s evidence, if given, would not be favourable to your side ? — Certainly.

• 929.

  Then what is that opposite Thomas Phillips’ name “the wrong” — what ? — Really I cannot read it myself.

• 930.

  I think most probably it is “the wrong Bushell” ? — Yes, it is.

• 931.

  That must be a reference to what we have afterwards in the particulars that it is a different Bushell ? — Yes, that may be so.

• 932.

  That of course is the same thing I was referring to just now. Then I see a little later, “George Hooper, Sandwich, this man is safe ;” and opposite “William Lock,” opposite which name are those words written ? — I really cannot say. It seems to me to be opposite William Lock. I have no recollection of Lock.

• 933.

  It looks from that as if you had seen him yourself ? — Not necessarily.

• 934.

  I think it only fair to say that that note, “This man is safe,” must really mean that no charge can be made against him, for in your other note I see you say, “He had nothing to do with the election.” Therefore it does not mean that he could be relied upon not to tell, but that he had nothing to do with the election. At any rate that is what was in your mind at the time ? — Yes, no doubt.

• 935.

  That is all I need ask you about that paper. Now, among the papers there is that (handing same to the witness), I shall be glad if you will tell me what that paper is ? — I believe it is an account rendered by the housekeeper to Mr. Crompton Roberts of the expenditure.

• 936.

  An account rendered by his housekeeper to Mr. Crompton Roberts ? — Yes.

• 937.

  You see it begins with the date of the 4th of May; that was the very day he came down ? — Yes. I have no doubt it is an account rendered by his housekeeper to him of his expenditure.

• 938.

  It can hardly be that, I think. Such a thing, for example, as “Velocipede club” would hardly be paid by his housekeeper. In whose handwriting is it, do you think ? — I think it is Mrs. Steadman’s handwriting, the housekeeper.

• 939.

  There are some things here which might perfectly well have been paid by the housekeeper : “Coachman going to Deal, keep of six horses, stand for three carriages.” Those are expenses that appear to be incurred here that might be paid for in that way. You think this is Mrs. Steadman’s handwriting, do you ? — I think so. I cannot make out how it came into my possession.

• 940.

  This is rather an extraordinary thing to find in Mrs. Steadman’s handwriting: “Mr. C. R, 5L.; Mr. C. R, 20L.” Then there are some other figures and 60L., and then carried out at 104L. Now, can you give any explanation of that ? — I know Mrs. Steadman is a person in a highly responsible position, that she does the housekeeping, and that Mr. Crompton Roberts trusts her with large sums of money, and to save himself the trouble of having to draw a cheque on his bankers he would go to Mrs. Steadman and say, “Give me 50L.” I know that.

• 941.

  That may be it ? — I have no hesitation in saying that that is Mrs. Steadman’s account, and I cannot tell how I got it.

• 942.

  Then this entry seems to show that Mrs. Steadman gave Mr. Crompton Roberts 104L., because there is “Mr. C. R., 5L., Mr. C. R., 20L.,” and 9L., 10L, and 60L carried out at 104L. ; it would come to that ? — I never looked at the items.

• 943.

  What conveys itself to your mind is that Mrs. Steadman gave those sums to Mr. Crompton Roberts ? — That he, coming down here, had plenty to do ; for, as he told me, when he came back from Deal, his hand and wrist were so swollen he was obliged to bathe it with water for a fortnight, and he had so much to do, what with interviewing voters and shaking hands with them, their relatives and their children, that he was only too glad to adopt this course. This is only assumption, mind ; when I say assumption, it is on a good basis. I believe he would be only too glad to put into Mrs. Steadman’s hands the complete management and control of the house, of course including horses and carriages, and so on, and no doubt that accounts for these sums of money. There is no difficulty, if your honours wish it, in getting Mrs. Steadman here. Mrs. Steadman is in Belgrave Square now. If there is any difficulty about it, no doubt she could come down if you summon her, and give any explanation necessary.