Usher, Thomas James | Day 4

Also gave evidence at the earlier Petition Inquiry.

Instrumental in the choice of Mr Crompton Roberts as the Conservative candidate. In has testimony cited the names of the leading Conservatives in the constituency.
He offered to take on dealing with all the requests for flags and colours in Deal and Walmer when Mr Hughes said it was too much for him to handle. The requests turned out to be many and Walmer was subsequently passed on to George Marley. Not explicitly stated who paid him but listed as Edwin Hughes.

Commented that every house in the town had a flag and if there were any more the houses would disappear.

Witness Type: Briber, Petition witness

Party: Conservative

Witness Testimony:

  • 3881.

    You have received nothing beyond 400L., directly or indirectly from anyone ? — No.

  • 3882.

    Do these accounts, which you have handed in, and which I have been referring to, 14L. 16s., 331L. 13s., and 52L. 8s. 11d. represent all the claims that you have had in respect of this election ? — No, they do not.

  • 3883.

    What others have you had ? — I have had an account rendered to me by Messrs. Frost, Brothers, for some flags that they supplied, but of which I was not cognisant, and gave no order for, therefore I declined to recognise it.

  • 3884.

    Who are Frost Brothers ? —Ironmongers in the town.

  • 3885.

    What is the amount of that ? — I forget what the amount was, but there were two different bills ; I think, to the best of my recollection, they amount to about 7L. I will not be sure, but it is not larger than that, I think.

  • 3886.

    Have you had any other claims made upon you ? — Not any — well, one man of the name of Redman, he keeps the “True Briton,” — brought me a bill for refreshments which he had supplied. It is a public-house at Walmer. I will not be sure whether it is the “True “Briton.” I told him I knew nothing about it, and, therefore, I declined to have anything to do with it.

  • 3887.

    What was the amount of that ? — Somewhere about 8s. or 9s., or something like that. There is one other item which does not appear in the account, which I have paid myself, which I might mention to you. I paid 2L. to my father to go to Canterbury to get a man out of the Canterbury Hospital, who was very ill, but the doctor said he would be well enough to come down and vote, provided he had someone to take care of him, and travel in a comfortable carriage. I therefore paid my father 2L., and asked him to go to Canterbury to bring this man out, to have a fly from the hospital to the station, and from the station back again, and also to go back again to Canterbury, which he did.

  • 3888.

    Did that include the expense of coming over ? — Everything ; that included his own railway fare and the man’s ; his was a double railway fare.

  • 3889.

    That was to pay all the expenses of that ? —Yes.

  • 3890.

    Both the expenses of the man and his coming over ? —Yes, and I think he was about a shilling or so out of pocket.

  • 3891.

    Where you aware of any corrupt practices by money being distributed, or anything of that kind ? — No, I was not actually aware of it, but I had a suspicion that it was so.

  • 3892.

    Do you know, or had you any suspicion, or any ground for believing that any money was distributed, beyond what Mr. Olds told us of, with reference to the 1,200L. which came down on the Monday before the election ? — I have not any idea at all upon the subject. I did not hear Mr. Olds’ evidence upon the point; personally I have no knowledge of any money at all, and my only suspicions are gathered from outside chatter which I have heard. I may mention that there are two charges made against me in the particulars of bribery, which I utterly deny, in fact, it is a villainous lie, whoever put it in there.

  • 3893.

    (Mr. Turner.) You were not called then ? — I was called, and I denied it. With respect to the flags I gave out, I may say that flags that I considered of any value, possibly worth 12s. or 14s., I simply issued as a loan, and took a receipt from the persons that they were to return them on demand, but it so happened that during the whole of the election, we had such a strong north- easterly wind that there were very few flags which were worth anything by the time the election was over. I got some back. A flag that I considered to be of any value I took a receipt for.

  • 3894.

    (Mr. Holl) What became of them ? — I have some now ; those that were worth collecting.

  • 3895.

    The FLAGpoles, I understand, were only hired ? — I had nothing to do with those at all, in fact, we did not put any flags up until the opposite party did, although we had the flag poles and the flags.

  • 3896.

    (Mr. Jeune.) Were the flags and rosettes on the other side as large as yours do you think ? — I am afraid there was much rivalry on either side to have large flags. If A. who lived at 100, Lower Street had a blue flag, and B. was a Conservative, he would try and cover it with a larger one ; and C, who lived next door, would have a larger flag still, so they tried to cover up with flags. It became too great, and I was obliged to give it up before the election.

  • 3897.

    You think when once the display of colours begins, it is pretty sure to be carried to a great height ? — Yes, to extremes, and there is no meaning in it, nothing at all, it is simply utterly useless expenditure, that is my opinion about it, but absolutely necessary. Some of them would come and blackguard me. “If you do not give me a flag, I will not vote. ” I said, “Very well, you can do just what you like.” I had some large rosettes in my office, and some person came in and wanted a rosette ; he had one given to him, but he did not think it large enough. I told him he could not have one. He said, ” Why can’t I have one.” I said, “They are for horses.” He said, “Well, aint we better than horses ; we have votes and they have not.”

  • 3898.

    (Mr Holl,) You had a much larger display of flags on this occasion ? — Yes, a larger display, but they were all of no value. I have seen at elections here, 20 or 28 years ago, some very handsome flags ; but here I should say there was not a flag exhibited worth more than a sovereign, barring the flag I had made.

  • 3899.

    During the last 10 or 15 years there has been no expenditure for flags to any extent ? — No ; these were all cambric flags, glazed lining, and they would fly to pieces very soon. The best flag we had during the whole election was one to carry in front of the band on the day of the election for which I paid 3L., I think.

  • 3900.

    You began getting ready ? — Yes; we were told we had a man with plenty of means. But the opposite side said, ”If yours can spend 2,000L, ours can spend 4,000L., and if yours can spend 4,000L, ours can spend 8,000L.;” so we were jolly well sure it would be a sharp contest.”

  • 3901.

    In fact you intended to have a good display of this kind ? — We meant to win if popularity would win. The fact is, we had the popular man, and they had not.

  • 3902.

    When you say ” the popular man,” what do you mean ? — Mr. Roberts, in his manner, was a genial kind of man; he was, I would say, a large-hearted man, and Sir Julian was a different kind of man altogether.

  • 3903.

    A pleasant sort of man ? — He was in his bearing courteous to everyone, and Sir Julian treated everybody, in my opinion, in a sort of supercilious manner, as if he was infinitely superior to the whole lot of us here ; but we did not think so.

  • 3904.

    (Mr. Jeune.) If Mr. Crompton Roberts had been the liberal, and Sir Julian had been the Conservative, do you think Mr. Crompton Roberts would have beaten Sir Julian ? — I do.

  • 3905.

    (Mr. Holl) He had got a start too ? — Yes, we had six days’ start.