Testimonies

Testimonies

• 135.

  I do not know whether you have the means of ascertaining exactly the day he called upon you ? – I think I can by referring, not to my diary, but to things that occurred at the time. I have no distinct memory of the date, but other things may bring it to my recollection.

• 136.

  If you can kindly send the expenses retain for 1874 ? – I will look at all the papers.

• 137.

  And when you send us the return for 1874, can you send us the vouchers as well, sealed up ? – I will send you anything I have. I believe I have the vouchers. I know I have the returns for I have looked at them. I will send everything of that kind I can find.

• 138.

  If you have the vouchers for 1874, perhaps you will let us have them sealed up ? – Yes, I will, if I have them.

• 139.

  Were there a large number of ROSETTES displayed ; were people wearing colours to any great extent ? – I did not see any great number of ROSETTES myself.

• 140.

  Neither at Sandwich, nor Deal and Walmer ? – No. There were some about, I know, but not to any great extent; not any great number. It was said before, in former years, that every one wore a rosette, men, women, and children.

• 141.

  We see that in the 1874 election there was a considerable majority for the Liberal candidate, above 300 ; can you account at all for the very considerable majority that Mr. Roberts had over the Liberal candidate ? – No, I cannot.

• 142.

  It was a majority of 440 ? – Yes. I was much surprised myself with the result I would not believe the figures when they come out.

• 143.

  And you are able to account for it ? – Yes. On that very morning my idea, as an outsider, was that it was a very close run, and thought it my duty to advise the returning officer that in the case of a tie he had got a casting vote, and he had better think about what he would do. It turned out to be a majority of 400 odd, so that I was quite out of the running. I knew nothing at all about it.

• 144.

  You cannot give us any reason to account for it, or in any way account for it yourself ? – I should say, simply, as a man of the world, that the fact that Mr. Crompton Roberts was here for a full week before anybody else appeared had something to do with it. The people on the other side failed to find a candidate, nobody appeared, and common sense tells one that had a great deal to do with it.

• 145.

  Did that to some extent influence it ? – Undoubtedly. I should say so as a man of the world.

• 146.

  Do you think that alone would account for 700 difference between the last election and the election of of 1874 ? – It would not be so much as that.

• 147.

  There was in 1874 a majority of 300 for the Liberal candidate, and of 400 for the Conservative candidate in 1880, a difference of 700 ? – Half that number of voters going from one side to the other would do it.

• 148.

  You think that had a good deal to do with it, do you ? – There was some little change in political feeling, I believe. Some people on the Liberal side said there was a decided change. I should doubt that as far as regards a decided change, but I should think there was some change of political opinion, but not to the extent of 700. I know Mr. Crompton Roberts’ people said there was a large change. Any man in the field for a week, with an active set of agents about, and spending money, of course advances his position.

• 149.

  When were the expenses for the unopposed election returned ? – Recently, perhaps a fortnight ago ; the 23rd of September, I think.

• 150.

  Do you know at all how it happened they were not returned before ? – No, I do not. I apprehend they were not made out.

• 151.

  When was the return made of the May election on behalf of the Conservative candidate. First of all, do you produce the return of the expenses of Mr. Crompton Roberts ? – Yes, Do you want the vouchers handed in ?

• 152.

  Yes, the vouchers and the returns ? – Very well. (the same were produced and handed to the secretary.] The secretary has been all through those and they are now just as he arranged them. I see the return was received on the 2nd of August, the vouchers came a day or two after that.

• 153.

  I think that was the last day, was it not ? – No, it was far out of date, it is dated somewhere in the middle of July, but received on the 2nd of August.

• 154.

  There is a memorandum, “Received on 2nd of August. BILLS and vouchers received on 4th of August” ? – That is correct. The return is dated some fortnight before. That might have been in time, but I do not know exactly.

• 155.

  This is the return “Borough of Sandwich, Deal, and Walmer. Election 1880. Expenses paid on behalf of Mr. Crompton Roberts. Agents fee, 210L. Sub-agents, 92L. 10s. Cabs, railway fares, telegrams, Ac, 224L. 5s. 4d. Committee houses, 527L. 1s, 3d.Clerks personation agents at central offices, 125L 14s. 4 1/2d. Ditto per Mr. Usher, 370L. Postages, 22L 18s. 5d. Public meetings, 29L. 17s. Canvassers and messengers at Deal, 468L. 1s. Ditto at Sandwich, 83L. 16s. Ditto at Walmer, 60L. 14s. 5d. Bill posting, 35L 6s. 9d, Boards and boardmen, 139L. 19s. 2d. Posting stations, POLES, cordage, &c., 279L. 19s. 9 1/2d. Printing and stationery, 221L. 17s, 1d. Personal expenses, 106L 13s. 2d. Returning officer, 70L. 8s. 3d. Sundries, 84L. 3s. 3d. Total, 3,153L. 5s, 3d.” That was received by the returning officer on the 2nd of August, and the BILLS and vouchers for these disbursements were received by you on the 4th of August you say ? – Yes, in a separate parcel.

• 156.

  When did you first receive any return on behalf of the Liberal candidate. Sir Julian Goldsmid ? – On the 20th of September. I should state that Her Majesty’s judges called upon the agents for their accounts just as they stood. They sent for them, and they were then impounded by the judges and handed by them into my custody, I suppose I am quite right in handing them.

• 157.

  These were the vouchers handed in by the Liberal agent to the judges at the trial of the election petition ? – They were.

• 158.

  And then impounded and handed to you ? – They were called for, the agent was sent back to get them, and they were handed in to the judges, and impounded by the judges, and given to me to keep.

• 159.

  And these are them ? – Yes.

• 160.

  And the return, as they were delivered to you upon the election petition ? – Yes, I had them from the judges themselves. I have since got their own returns from the parties, but these ware papers taken out of their hands by the judges.

• 161.

  These were the papers handed in by the Liberal agent at the trial of the election petition ? – Yes, the judges called for them and impounded them.

• 162.

  And since then, on the 20th of September, you have got the return of the expenses from the Liberal agent ? – Yes, the regular return.

• 163.

  Did you receive any further vouchers with that return ? – They are all here.

• 164.

  And they came, when ? – Deal and Walmer return came on the 20th of September ; Sandwich on the 23rd, and they contain all the vouchers.