Hughes, Edwin | Day 19
Witness Type: Briber, Petition witness
Party: Conservative
Other Days The Witness Was Called On: Day 20
Witness Testimony:
- 19418.
(Mr. Turner.) Were those 1400 promises obtained before Sir Julian Goldsmid came down ? — Yes.
- 19419.
You went down upon the 5th and started upon the 6th ? — I started the same night, and by the 12th we had 1400 promises. I had 80 canvassers, so that I very soon settled the question of 2000 voters.
- 19420.
I understand you to say that you got 1400 promises by a representation that that would be the last election unless the Conservative was elected ? — Yes.
- 19421.
If they were not to get something for it why should that influence them? If a man’s tendency was towards the Liberal side, why should he promise you unless he was to get something for it ? — There would be some of them who would vote for us in order to keep up the contest or the rivalry. For instance, this was in their minds: if Brassey and Crompton Roberts both represent the place — of course Brassey is a very liberal man — and Roberts will have to follow him in what he does in local matters.
- 19422.
Do you not know that the object they had and the desire they had for the contest was that they might get that payment which they had been in the habit of getting ? — There is an element of that kind, but I do not know that it pervades the whole constituency.
- 19423.
(Mr. Jeune.) Even if there is no direct bribery, an election is a capital thing for them ? — Yes. For instance, that £3100 that I spent does not include direct bribery, and it must be a good thing for a place, and it is looked upon by them as such.
- 19424.
(Mr. Turner.) Everybody who voted for the Liberals you say was bribed ? — I do not say everyone, but I say upon former occasions more than sufficient to carry the Liberals in were bought votes.
- 19425.
(Mr. Holl.) Do you believe that at the previous election when a Conservative stood and was defeated that the Liberals bribed and the Conservatives did not ? — Yes.
- 19426.
The Conservative voters throughout Deal you believe are perfectly immaculate and pure ? — No, I do not say that.
- 19427.
What is it you do mean? Do you believe that at previous elections the Liberals have been bribed but not the Conservatives ? — Yes, I do, and they lost.
- 19428.
With the same class of people, yet taking a Conservative boatman and a Liberal boatman there is that difference ? — The argument that was used that we should never fight the borough again unless we were successful, no doubt, raised the numbers from 900, which is the normal number, up to 1400. A number of the people have no politics at all.
- 19429.
Was it not because in case of a contest money was likely to be distributed amongst the voters for their votes ? — No. I think the promises were given in order to keep the Conservatives and Liberals fighting for the place time after time, and independently of the question of buying their votes there is always at an election a certain amount of excitement; carriages are wanted, flags have to be made, people are employed as messengers. It does not at all follow that there was bound to be a payment for the votes.
- 19430.
Do I understand you to mean that you thought the character of the constituency was such that they did not look for payment for their votes at that time ? — I thought the character of the constituency was such that they would get payment for their votes if they could, but if they could not they would have to go without.
- 19431.
Do you not think the desire for a contest was to get payment ? — Yes, if they could.
- 19432.
And if they could not get it from the Liberals they would come to the Conservatives ? — Some of them would.
- 19433.
That would be the character of the constituency in a large proportion ? — No, not a large proportion; the minority. I will not give them such a bad character as that.
- 19434.
You are aware, are you not, that quite half of the constituency did succumb to the temptation ? — I am aware of that.
- 19435.
Do you think that their virtue was overcome at a late period of the contest ? — No, I take it that the money was paid by the Liberals to the Conservatives for the purpose of getting them to break their promises, whereas I am certain we did not pay any money to the Liberals at all. We knew that they were in the minority, and we had got enough without them.
- 19436.
Do I understand that you did not attempt to bribe anybody who was doubtful as having a Liberal tendency ? — No, I left them alone. There were plenty of Liberals that said, “You can have my vote for £5,” and I said, “I do not want it. Go and vote your own way.”
- 19437.
Do I understand you to say that the money spent upon the Conservative side was paid to people who had already promised ? — Yes, it was paid to them to keep them from being influenced by money distributed upon the other side, and if you follow it out I think you will find that I am upon that point confirmed right up to the hilt.
- 19438.
Supposing the parties canvassing upon the Conservative side have stated that they were constantly asked for money in the course of canvassing and could not get a promise without promising that something should be given, were you quite unaware of that ? — I was not aware of that. Of the people that asked for money I said, “Do not bother yourself about them; depend upon it the man who asks for money in that unblushing manner is just as likely to vote against you even if he gets it; leave him alone.”
- 19439.
Are you aware that a great many of the canvassers, I will not say upon the Conservative side only, but upon both sides have stated before us that everywhere they went they were asked for money and could not get promises without it ? — I should not think that any Conservative canvassers have said that.
- 19440.
Do you mean to say they concealed that fact from you and did not give you any intimation of that being the state of things ? — Yes, wherever they said, “So-and-so wants payment,” I at once said, “Leave him alone,” and I marked him as Liberal in my book, and had done with him.
- 19441.
I understand that you secured 1400 promises from persons who did not ask for payment at all ? — Yes.
- 19442.
(Mr. Turner.) Had those 1400 that you secured always been Conservative voters ? — No. So many as 1400 have never been known in Deal before to promise to vote for the Conservatives, but they were influenced to that extent by our stating that we should never come to the place again if we were not successful. I do not think that the true Conservative element, if there is such a thing, numbers more than 900 in Deal.
- 19443.
(Mr. Holl.) However, you got 1400 promises ? — Yes, but we only called it 1140.
- 19444.
If the true Conservative element numbered only 900, how do you account for 1400 promises ? — We were a week in the field before our opponent, and we managed to ingratiate ourselves very much with the constituency.
- 19445.
Do I understand you to say that you obtained 500 promises from the Liberal side ? — No, not the Liberal side, but from people who had no politics. I should think there were 900 of our own people who were all right, and who would have voted for us in any event.
- 19446.
And you say that 500, who had no politics, promised you without any inducement so to do ? — Yes, but they broke their promise.
- 19447.
Do you believe that 500 of those people who had no politics, promised you without having had any inducement held out to them ? — The inducement was, that if they did not get us in that time, we should never contest the place again. They liked the idea of giving our side a turn, and so keeping the game alive. What they had in their own minds I do not know, but, however, they did promise us. I never went out canvassing, I may tell you, so that I am giving my own view of the case, and not from any absolute knowledge from canvassing.