Simmons, Daniel George Frederick | Day 17

Questioned at very great length about his expenses. He was somewhat ‘forgetful’ and ‘careless’ in his record keeping. Although he had previously lived in the area and knew many of the people involved in the election, he was rather vague about who he had dealings with!

Witness Type: Briber, Freeman, Treater

Party: Conservative

Witness Testimony:

  • 18890.

    On behalf of the Conservative candidate ? — Yes.

  • 18891.

    Was that Mr Capper ? — No, it was Captain Hallett. In the 1874 election.

  • 18892.

    Were you there on account of Mr Spofforth ? — No, I was then with a Mr Martin, at Deal. He was the Conservative agent at that time there.

  • 18893.

    And you say you cannot remember one single person to whom you paid this £18, or any part of it ? — No. The only thing I have is this (producing a card and handing it to the Commissioners). I found it casually in my pocket two days ago. I put on a coat I happened to have on at the election time and it contained that. That £7 there means £7 given to Dr Hulke.

  • 18894.

    Was that your own money, or did Mr Crompton Roberts supply any of it ? — Mr Crompton Roberts knew nothing of that individually; it came out of the money I had with me. I recollect that circumstance particularly, and it was in this way: it was on the morning of the election, and I had but about £10 in my pocket, and Dr Hulke said he had been put to a little expense, that he was a little out of pocket, and he wanted a small sum of money. I said I had so much in hand, and if I could do it out of that I would rather than have to trouble Mr Crompton Roberts about it.

  • 18895.

    That £7 which you have put down here was your own money ? — Yes, I disbursed it out of my own pocket.

  • 18896.

    You gave it him out of money in your own pocket ? — Yes, I thought I had better pay him, and I did.

  • 18897.

    Did you pay the £12 12s out of your own pocket ? — Yes, I thought I had better pay him.

  • 18898.

    And did you pay the £18 out of your own pocket for these charities ? — No. Some of it I did, I think. I had by that time got the £60, or it was soon after that.

  • 18899.

    And the £17 and the £3 for Mrs Crofts as well? Did you go down supplied by anybody with money, or did you go down with that quantity of your own money in your pocket ? — No.

  • 18900.

    But did you go at all supplied with money by anybody ? — No, because you see I had £5 given me the very night. I had only a sovereign in my pocket the morning I left London, and Mr Crompton Roberts gave me £5 the same night.

  • 18901.

    And friends there, you say, supplied you with money ? — Yes, I borrowed some.

  • 18902.

    You had none from Mr Crompton Roberts then until he paid you the £60 on the 12th ? — No, except the £5 on the 4th.

  • 18903.

    What more can you tell us you had to do with this election ? — I had nothing more to do with it. My interest in it terminated with the day of the election.

  • 18904.

    Were you at the election ? — Yes, I went over after the declaration of the poll with Mr Spofforth.

  • 18905.

    Had you anything to do with the messengers or canvassers ? — No, nothing.

  • 18906.

    Or the flags ? — No, I had nothing at all to do with the conduct of the election. I was simply secretary to Mr Crompton Roberts, and I refrained from doing anything at all likely to interfere with the voters.

  • 18907.

    Then you yourself did not canvass ? — Only among those people whom I happened to know.

  • 18908.

    How many were they ? — I daresay I know a great number of people there; Sandwich in particular. Deal I only know from having lived there.

  • 18909.

    Had you no money to influence the election with ? — No, certainly not.

  • 18910.

    You did not pay anybody ? — No. I should purposely have abstained from that because I knew Mr Spofforth’s great dread of anything of that sort. I certainly never attempted it.

  • 18911.

    (Mr Holl) You say you gave £7 to Dr Hulke ? — Yes.

  • 18912.

    Was that all he got ? — Yes, that was all.

  • 18913.

    You are sure ? — Yes.

  • 18914.

    And that was on the day of the election ? — That was about midday, I think.

  • 18915.

    But on the election day ? — Yes, as near as I can recollect.

  • 18916.

    Did he tell you what he wanted it for specially ? — Petty cash he said.

  • 18917.

    Did he ask you for it, or did you offer it to him ? — I did not offer it; he simply said he and another gentleman were a little out of pocket, and, I suppose, they thought I should ask Mr Hughes, or something of that sort, or whether they thought I had not got any money or not I do not know. Dr Hulke had been connected all along with the election. He was a gentleman I had always seen down there.

  • 18918.

    “A little out of pocket;” do you mean they had paid the money, or that they wanted to pay it ? — For money they had spent. I think Dr Hulke paid for some champagne.

  • 18919.

    What did he ask you for it for ? — I think he said he had paid for some champagne, or something of that sort, as far as I recollect.