Foord, Charles Ross | Day 16

He took £1500 in gold to Deal on 14th May. Commenting that he knew there were a large number of payments to be made in advance and while it was unusual to ask a candidate for payment in advance, they did it when necessary. Very surprised that any agent should want money in advance. He preferred to take it in gold because he had a great hatred of Bank of England notes.

Witness Type: Other

Party: Liberal

Witness Testimony:

  • 18031.

    There are four in the firm ? — Yes, but one of them is generally in London, and his other residence is Botley Grange, Southampton.

  • 18032.

    Which brother would know about Sir Julian Goldsmid ? — My brother Mr. John Ross Foord.

  • 18033.

    That is Alderman Foord ? — Yes.

  • 18034.

    Does he live in Rochester ? — Yes.

  • 18035.

    I suppose “Alderman John Ross Foord” will find him ? — Yes.

  • 18036.

    (Mr. Turner.) Did you eyer know any transaction like this, with this number of bags of sovereigns, in any previous election of Sir Julian Goldsmid ? — No, certainly not ; and I never heard of such a thing before as wanting money in advance. It appears to be understood as a Sandwich custom. Personally, it was not any business of mine, and if Sir Julian Goldsmid had asked me to send down 3,000L. instead of 1,500L. I would have taken care that his agent should have had it ; his agent is responsible for that, and he is a gentleman and a solicitor.

  • 18037.

    Of course you would look to Sir Julian Goldsmid, and not his agent, for repayment ? — Of course I would not have sent money or taken money to common people ; but if Sir Julian Goldsmid had simply told me he required it I would have taken it down, with very great pleasure, to him ; and so I would tomorrow morning. I would repeat this tomorrow if he asked me for it, because he is a very honourable, straightforward man, and I would not hesitate to do anything he asked me, and I am very pleased to have had the opportunity of doing it.

  • 18038.

    (Mr. Jeune.) You say that you received a telegram ; was that the only telegram you received ? — Yes, the only telegram. I have had no letter from Sir Julian, and I have not seen Sir Julian but once since the election at Rochester.

  • 18039.

    You have had no letter or telegram in connexion with the matter except the one you have mentioned ? — No, none at all. I only knew of the result of the election through a next door neighbour of mine, Mr. Champion, and a personal friend. I knew a great deal more about Sandwich from the other side than I knew about it from my own side.

  • 18040.

    Were you ever in Sandwich before ? — No, never.

  • 18041.

    You are entirely unknown there by sight ? — I daresay I was.

  • 18042.

    Have you ever been there before ? — No, I have never been to Sandwich before in my life. I have one or two personal friends in the particular locality and therefore I should not like to say that I was entirely unknown.

  • 18043.

    Have you ever been at Sandwich yourself ? — No, I have never been in Sandwich in my life before.

  • 18044.

    You say Mr. Belsey came to your office about 1 o’clock ? — No, about 12 o’clock; our office is very close to where the train arrived, and the train was due a little before 12.

  • 18045.

    You sent for your brother Mr. John Ross Foord ? — Yes.

  • 18046.

    That was when you were considering the matter ? — Yes, but it did not take long to consider, of course.

  • 18047.

    Of course you had to decide whether the money should go down and how it should go down ? — Yes ; I did not hesitate a minute ; directly my broker came down he said “Yes ; if Sir Julian wants it, take it down.”

  • 18048.

    From whom did the suggestion come that the money should go in gold ? — My brother said, or I said myself, I think, “I shall take it down in gold.” I never had any idea of taking it down in any other way.

  • 18049.

    Did your brother suggest, or did it come from you, that the money should be taken down in gold ? — I should think it came from myself. I think it is most likely I said that I should take it down in gold. He gave me the cheque, and when I went up to London, I told them at the bank I wanted gold. I was responsible for taking it in gold, and no one else.

  • 18050.

    Was it discussed between you three how the money should be taken down ? — It was agreed that it was better for me to go than one of the clerks.

  • 18051.

    I mean the shape in which it should be taken ? —I think, I said, “I shall take it in gold.” It might have been my brother.

  • 18052.

    Was there any discussion between you as to upon which bank the cheque should be drawn to get the gold ? — I think I have told you before that my brother said it would be more convenient that I should go to London and get the money.

  • 18053.

    Did he say why it would be more convenient ? -—He simply said that it would be better for our banking account, that is all; he said, it would be more convenient, and, therefore, I understood him to mean that it would be better for our banking account.

  • 18054.

    Is that all he said ; tell me exactly what he said ? — If you mean that we should have been afraid to go to the Rochester bank to have done it, I may say, without hesitation, we were not afraid, and I would as soon have gone to the Rochester bank as the London bank, but my brother said from the way in which our account stood it would be better to take it from the London Joint Stock bank.

  • 18055.

    You say that you started at one to go to London, and you got back about half-past seven ? — No, before then I got back ; I got back as soon as ever I could, because one does not want to carry about 1,200L. in London longer than you can help. I went to London at one o’clock, and, I think, I told you I arrived at Ludgate at 2.52, went to the bank, got the money, and returned at 4.27 from Ludgate.

  • 18056.

    Am I to understand that your only reason for going up to London, and getting the cheque cashed in that way, was that your brother said it would be more convenient in respect to the banking account at Rochester to do that ? — Yes.

  • 18057.

    I am clearly to understand that that was the only reason ? — Yes, I had just as much confidence in the London and County bank at Rochester as these people.

  • 18058.

    You do not suggest that there would have been the slightest difficulty in getting the money upon going to the bank at Rochester, and asking them to give it to you ? — No.

  • 18059.

    You said some years ago you were in the habit of paying as much as 1,000L. a week in wages ? — Yes.

  • 18060.

    And for that you would draw a cheque and get gold ? — We do not draw so heavily as that ; the wages could be drawn in two or three different places. Perhaps 200L. would be drawn at Sheerness. It would not be drawn in one cheque, but two or three cheques, because some of the wages would be due upon Thursday, and others later on.