Testimonies

Cloke, Frederick Spencer | Day 4

Witness Type: Briber, Petition witness

Party: Conservative

Witness Testimony:

• 3667.

  You did not consider them as things absolutely necessary ? — They were not absolutely necessary. I may say this, we put up no flags and got no colours of any kind until the opposition commenced and the blue flags were flying about.

• 3668.

  The other side began flying flags, did they ? — Yes. I may say, so far as the persons go, three out of the five persons who supplied them were supporters of our opponents — three out of the tradesmen ; one was Mrs. Hunter, or at any rate that was the place where the central committee room was held; and Mr. Rose and Mr. Elgood were both supporters of the Liberals.

• 3669.

  What is Mr. Hathaway — a member of your committee ? — Yes.

• 3670.

  And Mr. Rigby ? — That was for painting an inscription. Those are the only two of them our supporters.

• 3671.

  I suppose Mr. Hathaway ordered the flags and rosettes from himself for himself ? — No.

• 3672.

  Who did then ? — Individual members of the committee.

• 3673.

  He was a member of the committee ? — Yes, but it was not for himself. I ordered some few myself for the horses’ heads and carriages ; it was the members of the committee who ordered them.

• 3674.

  Then there was 3L. for canvassers ; did you engage them — Well, they were all working during the election, I believe; and after the election I told Mr. Baker and one or two others that I was going to send in the account and asked whether there was any one they thought should be remunerated for extra services they had rendered, and it was thought these men whose names appeared there, it was only fair they should have a present ; they had worked very hard and it was only reasonable and fair to them to make them a present.

  I never said anything to them, but I included the names in the account. I sent to Mr. Hughes and told him I thought the amount set opposite their names was fair and reasonable and the men had fairly earned the money. He made no objection to it and sent the money.

  When I found the petition was likely to be heard I thought it best to wait before paying them. I never spoke to them about it, with the exception of one. I find I made a mistake when I was examined on the petition. I stated I paid none, but I find I paid Mr. Slaughter. The receipt will show when I paid it, and the receipts will show when I paid the others.

  In the other cases, until their names were read out in Court at the hearing of the petition, those men did not know they were to be paid anything at all. I had not promised them anything nor do I think anybody else did.

• 3675.

  Before the election had any bargain been made with them what they were to receive ? — I do not think they had the slightest idea what they were to receive.

• 3676.

  There is considerable difference in the price paid to them ; Brett and Bushell got 10L. each ? — They were our prominent hard workers.

• 3677.

  Who did you say fixed the amounts opposite their names ? — I put them opposite their names, but it was in conversation with members of the committee who knew what it was fair to offer them ; both of those are master tradesmen, I believe.

• 3678.

  What is Brett ? — He is a master bricklayer and Bushell is a leather-cutter. I think those amounts are altogether original ; at any rate, there was no bargain made with them and the payments were not made in pursuance of any previous agreement. There is one of them not paid yet; Jenkins is his name; he has not been for his money and I have not paid him. I sent a message to him, but he has not been in yet. The others I paid, you will find, comparatively recently.

• 3679.

  I see there is a bill paid on account of Baron de Worms. Mr. Parker says there was no promise made, either by you or anybody else, that that bill of Baron de Worms should be paid ? — I don’t think so. I don’t think Parker has been examined upon it at all.

• 3680.

  What is the history of that claim ? — When the contest commenced I heard of this bill ; it was thought a very reasonable one, and Mr. Parker, I believe, was a very respectable man, and the bill was undoubtedly due, and he ought to have been paid by somebody ; but early in the contest I said it could not possibly be paid.

  I had nothing to do with that election and I could not pay it ; later on it was paid. The date when it was paid will show the time, but I paid it on the same day that Mr. Edwin Hughes brought the bill to me and said it should be paid.

  I expressed much surprise that he should pay it, and he said, “I am agent for Baron de Worms, and conducted Greenwich election for him, and I will pay it as his agent.”

  I suppose I looked possibly rather astonished at his paying Baron de Worms’ bill for 1868 ; and he then went on to say that the accounts between them had not been closed, and he certainly intended to charge it to Baron de Worms’ account.

  Under those circumstances he asked me to pay it, and I paid it, and said it was purely by the accident of Mr. Hughes being the agent of Baron de Worms that he got his money ; that it was not paid by Mr. Crompton Roberts, he must understand ; but was paid by the agent of Baron de Worms.

• 3681.

  What is Mr. Parker ? — The landlord of the “ Red Lion.” He seemed to think it a great hardship on him, as a great portion of this bill was incurred by order of Baron de Worms’ own brother.

• 3682.

  It was a bill for refreshments I suppose ? — I don’t know what it was for, I believe it was. I believe there was no doubt at all about the bill really being owing, and at the express request and direction of Mr. Hughes, I paid it with the full statement of his, certainly, that he should charge it to the account of Baron de Worms.

• 3683.

  You received first and last 250L. ? — Yes.

• 3684.

  Is that all that you received ? — That is all I received except subsequently I received the balance. I sent the draft account to the secretary, and the final balance of the account I have since received. Mr. Hughes came down, it is the only time I have seen him since the election, and held a meeting here, in Deal, wrote to me that he would pay me the balance of the account, and I thought I might as well have the balance and so I did.

• 3685.

  What was the amount paid you then ? — 95L, I think, it is 13L. more than the balance shown there, it is in the draft account

• 3686.

  In this account there is a balance in your favour ; you were not paid in full by 131L. 7s. 3d. You told me there were certain items not paid afterwards, what sum did you receive to make the balance up. There is 131L. 7s. 3d. short ? — I gave the secretary the draft account I have no other papers except what I sent down.

• 3687.

  48L. 12s. I think it was ? — Yes, and then I added the things I had previously omitted.

• 3688.

  That balance of 82L. is made up by the sums which you told me just now were disallowed ? — I think I can tell you what they were, they were made up by the sums of 22L. 13s. 9d. refreshments to clerks, messengers, &c., 42L. 4s. 4d. the bills for colours, and 17L. 17s. 6d., which to my astonishment Mr. Hughes did not send.

  I made the remark to him that that bill had been paid by his special request very early in the contest. I reminded him of it in a letter I sent him, a copy of which is among the papers I sent I think. I subsequently received the balance, 95L. 15s. 3d., which would be the final balance.

• 3689.

  Is that all the money you received ? — With the exception of the fee he sent me for myself.

• 3690.

  Apart from your own fee does that represent every sixpence you have received ? — Every penny. I never received a farthing of any kind from any source other than that amount.

• 3691.

  And do the amount which are here, represent all the expenditure that you have made in connexion with this election ? — Every penny ; rather more than I have had in fact. They represent all the claims I have had of any kind, all of which are not paid.

  In this draft amount which I sent to Mr. Hughes, I put paid against many of the items, and I ticked his account I think in some way or the other, and informed him those I had ticked had been paid and those unticked had not been paid, so as to show him exactly what the position was.

• 3692.

  You knew I suppose about the sending out of the voting cards before the election asking for the vote and so on ? — They were sent over to be sent out by messengers ; they had to be distributed by hand.

• 3693.

  Is this little packet the sort of thing or the exact thing that was sent to every voter (handing same to the Witness) ? — They were in envelopes when they came over, but the probability is this came in a letter to me. I have no doubt that represents exactly what was done. Oh, yes, there is the endorsement, which shows it — there is my own endorsement.

• 3694.

  You received a letter from Mr. Hughes as follows, ”Dear sir. The letters herewith are to be sorted and delivered as soon as possible ; the printers here have been delaying us. If you find that by stamping them and posting they will be delivered at once do so, but otherwise do it by reliable hands.

  The enclosed documents are the enclosures in the letters, and refer to the regatta at I and the train at 7.15., &c. today. The other side offer 4L. 10 minutes after polling. This is official. Yours truly, Edward Hughes. ”

  Did Mr. Edward Hughes send you together for the purpose of your circulating it the letter asking the people to vote for Roberts and the form which they were to fill up if they proposed to do so ? — I have no doubt whatever that these were altogether; you will find if you look at the back of the letter, that I have endorsed them as enclosures sent with voting cards.

• 3695.

  So that together with the cards, which showed them how they were to vote, with a large cross opposite Mr. Robert’s name, there was sent, was there, a card which contained an announcement that there would be a regatta, commencing at 1 o’clock, on Whit-Monday, and that the pier would be open for the public by a free ticket, and that there would be attractions of various kinds, including the presentation of prizes by Mr. Crompton Roberts ? — I have no doubt there was, I can only speak from seeing them together, and from the endorsement here made, I have not the slightest doubt that they were sent together.

• 3696.

  I suppose the electors of Sandwich thought that a very kind, thoughtful and generous thing on the part of Mr. Crompton Roberts ? — Yes, I believe it did not come off, however.