Testimonies

Testimonies

• 1185.

  That money must be paid to the voters ? — Yes. It was a case of refreshments only at that time.

• 1186.

  At first, you say, it was only refreshments ? — Yes.

• 1187.

  Was that when he gave you the 40L. ? — Yes.

• 1188.

  How did he give it to you, in gold ? — Yes, I think it was in gold, two 20L

• 1189.

  You engaged the seven public-houses did you not ? — Yes.

• 1190.

  At 4L. a-piece ? — Yes.

• 1191.

  Had you done that before you applied to him for money ? — I had done it in tins way, they were Liberals, they stated to me that they were tormented by the Conservatives to give them their support, and I asked them to wait as we might have a candidate’ and we would see what could be done with them. That was the ground I went upon.

• 1192.

  Had you arranged with them before you applied to Mr. Emmerson for money ? — ! had made no arrangements, simply wait and we will see what can be done.

• 1193.

  When did you arrange with them what took place between you. You say they told you that they were pestered by the Conservatives to give them their support ? — Yes.

• 1194.

  What did they say to you ? — There was no arrangement made. I simply told them they were to allow a little refreshment and I would pay for it.

• 1195.

  Yon say you asked them to wait, wait for what ? — That was a day or two before we knew Sir Julian Goldsmid was coming down, the Conservatives were taking all the public-houses. I asked them to wait a day or two simply to know my position.

• 1196.

  To wait for what ? — Not to go over to the Conservatives. I told them we might do something for them.

• 1197.

  You asked them not to go over to the Conservatives for a day or two ? — Yes.

• 1198.

  Because you thought what ? — Because I thought we might have a candidate, and as soon as I found we had got one I told them to go on, and I applied for that money to pay the expenses.

• 1199.

  I am speaking now about the seven public-houses that you engaged. Are you speaking about them ? — Yes.

• 1200.

  When you found that you had got a candidate did you go to them again ? — Yes, directly.

• 1201.

  What did you say to them ? — I told them that they could allow a little refreshment to friends, and that they would be paid for it.

• 1202.

  What arrangement did you make about taking the houses at 4L. a-piece. What was said about that ? — Simply this, they said they could have that amount from the Conservatives, and so that they should not be the losers by being with us, that amount was to pay them.

• 1203.

  They said they could have that amount from the Conservatives, and you agreed, in order to keep them on your side, to give them 4L a-piece for a room in the house ? — Yes.

• 1204.

  What were they to do for that ? — To use their influence.

• 1205.

  They were to use their influence with the persons who frequented the house ? — Yes.

• 1206.

  Did they agree to do that ? — They did.

• 1207.

  And afterwards you paid them the 4L. a house ? — Yes, afterwards.

• 1208.

  You say, on this occasion, when you applied to Mr. Emmerson you got 40L. from him ? — Yes.

• 1209.

  That was to pay partly for the refreshments which you told these people they might supply to your friends ? –Just so.

• 1210.

  It was given to you for that purpose ? — Yes.

• 1211.

  Was anything said about whether the whole of it was to be devoted to that purpose, or was it left to your discretion ? — It was left to my discretion. There was nothing more said.

• 1212.

  Nothing more was said at that time except that you were to keep the expenses down ? — No.

• 1213.

  To keep the public-house bills down for supplying refreshments to your friends. Did you go round to these public-houses each day and pay the accounts ? — I might not have gone each day, I went several times.

• 1214.

  I see the ‘King’s Arms’ is 6L ? — Yes.