Hills, Edwin | Day 14
Brother-in-law of John Thomas Outwin. Owned the principal brewery in Deal employing 14 men and 30 – 40 public-houses. Used his own money in bribery and treating totalling £48. Paid John Simpson £20 to distribute and influence voters. Wratten was paid £5 on account the other party had promised him that amount. The remaining five voters received £4 each. He testified to spending £6 or £7 in treating.
Party: Liberal
Witness Testimony:
- 16478.
You say that it came into your own head, and was not suggested by anybody to pay money to the voters when you began to pay money to the voters ? — Upon the morning of the election was the first money I paid.
- 16479.
Was that your own money ? — Yes.
- 16480.
Entirely ? — Yes.
- 16481.
How much money did you pay away to voters ? —I think it is £41.
- 16482.
Your own money ? — Yes.
- 16483.
To whom did you pay that ? — I have a list here (handing a paper)
- 16484.
Was all this £41 given upon the morning of the election day ? — No, it was not all given upon the morning of the election; I paid two or three of them a day or two after the election.
- 16485.
I see “George Simpson, 12 Grove Terrace, £20.” When did you pay that ? — He had that the morning of the election.
- 16486.
You gave him that for the purpose of his influencing voters, of course ? — Yes.
- 16487.
You knew that he was going to spend that money ? — Yes.
- 16488.
Did he tell you to whom he intended to give it ? — He did not mention the names, but he said it was for himself and four others that worked at the mill with him, but who he gave it to I do not know.
- 16489.
Had you canvassed him before ? — No.
- 16490.
Is George Simpson in your employ ? — No.
- 16491.
How came you to give George Simpson £20 for himself and four other persons ? — He came up to my house the Saturday before the election; the election was on Monday, I think.
- 16492.
No, Tuesday ? — Then it would be Monday night that he came up, and I told him I could not say anything to him then, and he must come again in the morning.
- 16493.
What did he come and ask ? — He simply came to see what he could get for his vote.
- 16494.
He came and asked you for money for his vote ? — Yes.
- 16495.
What did you say ? — I said that I could not say anything to him then, but if he came upon the morning I would see what I could do, and he did come upon the morning, and I gave him that money for himself and four others.
- 16496.
He told you that he could find these other people ? — Yes.
- 16497.
Did he fix the sum of £20, or did you ? — I do not know whether he did or not, I am sure. Yes, I think he fixed it at £20. They were to have £4 apiece.
- 16498.
He told you how many men it was he was going to influence ? — Yes, he told me himself and four more.
- 16499.
Do you know how it was that George Simpson came and asked you for money? What had you said or done to lead that man, or anyone else, to believe that you were willing to find this money ? — I believe he was sent up to me by Outwin.
- 16500.
Then you had talked to Mr Outwin about finding money ? — No, I do not know that I had spoken to him.
- 16501.
Then how do you account for Mr Outwin sending him to you ? — I do not know why it was he sent him to me.
- 16502.
A person would not send a voter to get money unless he had reason to suppose that the application would meet with a favourable answer. What had you said to Mr Outwin to lead him to suppose that George Simpson, or anybody else, might be sent to get money ? — I daresay I told Outwin that they had been before. They were up on the Monday evening, and I daresay I saw Mr Outwin before the morning and told him.
- 16503.
That is not quite it. Simpson comes upon the Monday, and you say you think he came because Outwin sent him ? — He came to see what he could get, of course.
- 16504.
What I am asking you is do you know how it was that George Simpson came to you upon the Monday evening to ask you for money? You had never seen George Simpson before ? — I think he was sent to me by Outwin.
- 16505.
Very well. What I want to know is what conversation had you had with Outwin which would have led Outwin to suppose that he could send persons to you to get money ? — I do not know that I had any conversation with him to lead him to suppose that.
- 16506.
Had you told Outwin that you would be prepared, or that you would be willing to find money for the purpose of paying the voters ? — No, I did not tell him that.
- 16507.
Can you suggest at all to us why it was that Outwin should send persons to you, holding the position you do, to get money for their votes ? — The only thing I can suggest is that he was himself pretty busy, and I suppose he wanted to get a few off his hands. That is the only reason I can give for it.