Testimonies

Spears, William Frost | Day 5

Witness Type: Briber

Party: Conservative

Witness Testimony:

• 4381.

  You say you had 10 men to each pole ? — I do not say to every pole ; from eight to ten, and to some POLES there might not be above seven. The reason why we had so many more was this — we had got a good many POLES up, and Mr. Hughes said he thought we had sufficient; but when these others turned up, that is, when Sir Julian Goldsmid came down, they put POLES before ours, and by George we were obliged to put POLES before theirs.

• 4382.

  How many did you erect before Sir Julian came down, 50, would you say ? — I cannot say. I would if I could, because it makes no difference to me how many there were, but I cannot tell you.

• 4383.

  I see you very soon got as much as 50L. or 60L. ? — Yes ; and when you come to get 200 or 300 people putting them up, it soon runs up.

• 4384.

  You had put up a good many before Sir Julian Goldsmid came down ? — Yes, a good few.

• 4385.

  And then you put up more ? — Yes, because the men were all mad, saying that all our POLES were shut out.

• 4386.

  (Mr. Jeune.) Did Mr. Hughes put any check upon you, or let you put up as many as you pleased ? — Mr. Hughes wanted to know about every one that was put up — bless you, he is a very particular man.

• 4387.

  When you began to put some more up you went and got Mr. Hughes’ leave to do it ? — Yes, decidedly, I never did anything without asking him, and if anybody went for a shilling for a pole he would never get it unless I was there and saw it done.

• 4388.

  He knew about your putting up every one of the POLES ? — Yes.

• 4389.

  And sanctioned your doing it ? — Yes, he asked whether I thought it fit to be there, and such like, and if I said, “Yes,” it was done, and if I said “No,” it was not done.

• 4390.

  Did you ever say ” No ” ? — Yes, plenty of times, there are six or seven now holding out for money for POLES, but I said “I had never ordered them, and whoever had ordered them they must go to them for the money,” but they never have been paid.

• 4391.

  (Mr. Holl.) I see besides those that you put up there were a good many put up by other people ? — That I will not answer for.

• 4392.

  I see besides the money mentioned as being paid to you, 135L., or 140L., there is a flagpole at the North end ; did you put that up ? — There were a good many along there.

• 4393.

  There is a “Flagpole, North End, 1L. 5s.” ? — Whereabouts was that ?

• 4394.

  I cannot tell you ? — I never paid 1L. 5s. for a pole. I paid 1L 10s.

• 4395.

  If there was 1L. 5s. paid for a flagpole at the North End that must have been in addition to what you put up ? — Yes.

• 4396.

  Then I see, “Kynaston, 3 POLES,” and ” Erridge, 3 FLAGSTAFFS, 4L. 10s.,” did you put them up ? — Yes, Erridges’ was put up, and I paid for them.

• 4397.

  Then “J. Wise, two POLES ” ? —Yes, I paid for Wise’s two.

• 4398.

  You received a great deal more money than the 135L., or 140L., if you received these sums ? — I told you I could not say.

• 4399.

  Then there is a pole at the “Saracen’s Head,” and one at the Shipping Yard, and one at the Esplanade, one at Middle Beach, one at Deal Castle, one at North End, and there are sums paid to Ralph, Licence, and Worrels ? — All I paid was 1L. 10s, a pole ; I know nothing about anything else.

• 4400.

  Did you put up these POLES at the Esplanade, Middle Beach, Deal Castle, and did you pay Ralph 1L. 16s. ? — All I put up I paid 1L. 10s. a pole for, I do not think I paid under 1L. 10s. or over 1L. 10s., I did not pay a shilling more.

• 4401.

  Can you tell me whether these sums that are put down to Ralph 1L. 16s., Licence 1L. 18s., Baxter 1L. 10s., Kynaston, FLAGSTAFF, 3L. 15s., were moneys paid to you, or were they paid direct to the men whose names I have read ? — They must have been paid to the men.

• 4402.

  In addition to what you spent ? — Yes, it must be.

• 4403.

  Including these sums, and the 20L. that you had for yourself, I see that the amount paid for the pole and erecting the POLES comes to 250L. ? — I daresay it does.

• 4404.

  That is including the 40L. you had for taking down, and the 20L. that you had for yourself, it comes to 250L. ? — Most probably it would. The 40L. that I had after the election was shared with 180 men, 4s. 5d. each.

• 4405.

  How many people do you think you employed altogether to put up the POLES ? — I could not tell you.

• 4406.

  Let us get at it as near as we can — I do not want you to guess — you say for the first six POLES you had 66 people ? — Yes.

• 4407.

  And afterwards you say you had an average of about eight people per pole, were they generally the same people or different people ? — No, different people — anybody that came along.

• 4408.

  I suppose in regard to a good many of the POLES the same people would come and help ? — I do not know whether they helped or not.

• 4409.

  Do you think that altogether you employed in putting up the POLES as many as 200 or 300 people ? — I do not know at all.

• 4410.

  Would it be nearer to 200 than 300 ? — It would be nearest to 200.