Testimonies

Cloke, Frederick Spencer | Day 4

Witness Type: Briber, Petition witness

Party: Conservative

Witness Testimony:

• 3637.

  I beg your pardon, it is written in the body of the receipt, the 11th of September ? — I know it was quite late. The man bothered me ever so many times, and it was only when I ascertained he had worked, and had been misled in thinking that I had engaged him to work (I did say something about it, but I had forgotten to put his name down) that I did pay him later on. You will find in the account I sent, I have inserted a man named Clarke for 3L. That is how I came to pay him, and I found afterwards he was not employed at all, and that this man was not paid.

• 3638.

  Did you, on the last day of the election, see this man Drayson ? — It would be about 10 days before the election ; he would be working up to the time of the election.

• 3639.

  Did you see him every day ? — I know I saw him several times ; I did not see him every day, for I was not there every day myself.

• 3640.

  Did he tell you what he had been doing, or make any report to you ? — He did not, and that is the reason I never thought of him, or thought of including him in the account, and I refused several times to pay him, but I found, as I told you, from Mr. Hooper that the man had been looking about, and he understood I had employed him, and that he thought it was very hard he was not paid, and, having this money in hand, at last I said, ”Well there seems to be a misunderstanding, you thought you were employed, and you did something, and although I do not know what it was, I will pay you,” and so it came to be paid later on, it was a long time, really, I protested, and would not pay. I had forgotten the circumstance.

• 3641.

  Then here are three other WATCHERS, Collins, Wyatt, and Wybourne ; those three persons are, I suppose, are all voters ? — I cannot say.

• 3642.

  You do not know ? — No.

• 3643.

  You engaged them, did you not ? — I authorised Mr. Hughes to engage them. He told me he had lost one close to his own house, and he heard there was a conspiracy to take down other flags, and he asked me if he had better not employ three other WATCHERS, and I said, “Very well.”

• 3644.

  Then follows some charges for committee clerks, you had two committee clerks at four guineas ? — Yes.

• 3645.

  And two personating agents ? — Yes.

• 3646.

  And then you had a messenger at 3L. 10s., and a check clerk at 4L., and three other check clerks at 3L. each ? — They were messengers and check clerks, that is to say, they were employed all the election as messengers, and on the day of the polling as check clerks. It is necessary in taking the votes to have someone who can write at the doors, and several others just about who know the people going in. It has been the custom to pay them, at all the elections I have had anything to do with, a guinea upon the day of the election, and they were employed for some considerable time as messengers. I mean those men who had three guineas.

• 3647.

  Are most of them voters ? I suppose they are ? — I could not tell you as to the check clerks, or personating agents. It is impossible to get men qualified for the office, unless they are voters. If they have been in Sandwich long enough to be of the slightest use, they must be on the register. Our committee-room clerks were not voters, and one or two of our check clerks were not voters. Where I could get a non-voter I gave him the preference, but in the majority of cases I was obliged to take voters.

• 3648.

  You did not tell them they were not to vote ? — I did not.

• 3649.

  I do not know whether you know this, which some witness has already told us about. You may not know it perhaps, but do you know whether at the elections previous to this, it has been the custom to pair off the persons employed ? — I have heard since it was ; but on this occasion both sides voted. I was told the other evening that it had been the custom previously to pair off, and be very careful about it.

• 3650.

  Now I see Mr. R A Cox gets 3L, 10s, as a messenger, and another 1L. afterwards ? — 1L. which is down was really paid before. That 3L. 10s. was the final settlement of this account. He was the chief messenger really, and during the election I paid him two sums of 10s. on account, that is how his name appears twice.

• 3651.

  This is the list of messengers for whom 42L. 7s. was paid ? — Yes; they were chiefly boys distributing bills.

• 3652.

  Were those messengers engaged by you ? — No, I do not think they were engaged by me. I do not think I engaged any messengers.

• 3653.

  Who determined who they should be ? Who fixed on them ? — I think they were fixed on by the members of the committee from time to time. Their names were sent in, and so forth, and I was told for what they were employed. I believe as matter of fact, they mainly were employed by the committee. One or two of them are not paid ; you see their names are there, with nothing against them.

• 3654.

  There are 48 you see ? — Yes. The great difficulty was not to have double the number.

• 3655.

  Everybody wanted to be a messenger, I believe ? — Yes ; and I believe in former elections there have been more. There was a great deal at this election more than usual of election literature to be sent about. We had meetings at Deal, and bills came over in the morning for a meeting that evening, which had to be sent out to nearly every elector.

• 3656.

  It was the case, I suppose, that there was in this election a great deal of election literature going about ? — Yes ; which gave an excuse for employing many more.

• 3657.

  I suppose you circulated speeches ? — Yes; everything calculated to educate the people.

• 3658.

  I see these people are paid very different sums. Some are only paid 10s., and some are paid as much as 1L. 10s. ? — They are paid at the rate of 2s. 6d. a day. Those paid 1L. 10s. had been engaged twelve days, and those paid 10s. would have been engaged but four days.

• 3659.

  Are most of these messengers voters ? — Do you mean the long list ?

• 3660.

  Yes ?— I believe they are all lads.

• 3661.

  I suppose then they are sons of voters, mostly ? — In some cases I know they were not in some cases they were sons of widows with no relatives ; but in the majority of cases they were necessarily the sons of voters.

• 3662.

  Then there is “printing and stationery,” which does not strike me as excessive, I must say. It strikes you now, does it not, it is a little large that number of messengers ; 49 messengers to 500 voters ? — No doubt they were not absolutely necessary. For instance, some boys were employed for three or four days only, and went on their business then. They were not all employed the whole time.

• 3663.

  Then “cards and telegrams,” and then “ tickets for passengers by special tram, ” what does that mean ? — I was asked by Mr. Hughes to get a special train to take people down to Deal for a public meeting. If you came to Deal you could not get back to Sandwich later than 9.30. It was desirable to have a train about 10.30 or 11, to bring them back, instead of having carriages to take them down and bring them back, and it was far cheaper to send them down by train. Then there was 3L. charged for the special tram, and then the tickets. You will find there are two. There is one special train charged at 3L., and in the draft account I sent the secretary afterwards, there is an additional 3L., which I had previously omitted. I asked the station-master at Sandwich for it, and he told me it had been paid at Deal, and after I sent the account in, he sent the account, and it had not been paid.

• 3664.

  There is “ Special train to Deal again ;” is that the same thing ? — Yes. You will find the two sets of tickets and one special train, and on turning to the draft account I sent to the secretary you will find the second special train, so that you can find two sums of 3L, and two sums for tickets. One was for the meeting when Lord George Hamilton came down.

• 3665.

  Then ” Railway fare and refreshments for committee and clerks going to Deal.” That is a small sum. I suppose that was necessary ? — Yes. We were obliged to be in communication now and then. I saw very little indeed of Mr. Hughes during the contest.

• 3666.

  Then there were some bills incurred by individual members of the committee for colours, flags, &c. Does that mean the committee wore rosettes or colours themselves ? — And for the town. I had a great dislike to going into them, and I got pitched into very much for not having ordered more flags and rosettes than there were. I told the members of the committee if they wanted any they had better take the responsibility on themselves, and order them ; I would not. Mr. Hughes came over and complained of the small number I had, and promised to send me a lot over from Deal. I said I had no objection to it, but would not order them. Afterwards bills came in, and some were made out to the members of the committee who ordered them. I sent them on to Mr. Hughes to deal with as he liked, and, subsequently, he sent the money, and I paid them.