Thomas, William Godfrey | Day 20

Paid out money on behalf of Mr Hughes. [Need to check the amounts].

Witness Type: Other

Party: Conservative

Witness Testimony:

  • 20135.

    Did most of those bills pass through your hands ? — Yes, I should think the great bulk of them, excepting cheques that were not entered by me in my book. (Mr. Edwin Hughes.) Mr. Thomas made up the return.

  • 20136.

    (Mr. Turner.) You took no bag of sovereigns to Old’s house ? — None whatever.

  • 20137.

    Upon the Monday before the election ? — No.

  • 20138.

    You were not there ? — No.

  • 20139.

    (Mr. Jeune.) You saw Mr. Olds, I suppose, pretty nearly as soon as you went down ? — Yes.

  • 20140.

    And you saw him, off and on, constantly during the time you were down ? — Yes.

  • 20141.

    He knew perfectly well who you were ? — Yes.

  • 20142.

    (Mr. Holl.) It is important that you should, if you can, fix more accurately the precise sums that you paid to Mr. Olds, apart from any payment for cabs or carriages, or anything of that kind, because I understood you to say at the commencement of your examination you thought it was about £1100 ? — Yes, I think it was.

  • 20143.

    If you gave him £354 on the Sunday, £400 and £150 on the Monday, and another sum of £350, that makes £1254 ? — I could not say exactly what the sums were.

  • 20144.

    Cannot you tax your memory more accurately as to what you did pay him ? — I remember the £354, the £400, and the £150 distinctly, but there was a further sum given to him afterwards.

  • 20145.

    You gave him the £354 upon the Sunday, and the £400 and £150 upon the Monday ? — Yes.

  • 20146.

    Those sums you remember distinctly ? — Yes.

  • 20147.

    That makes £904. Cannot you say with more certainty what you did give him beyond that ? — No, I cannot remember the exact sums. I simply handed them over by Mr. Hughes’ direction, and Mr. Hughes was to keep an account of what I did give him.

  • 20148.

    You say the last sum you are speaking of was the produce of cheques that you got cashed by various tradesmen ? — Finding the bank was closed I got as much cash as I possibly could, and gave cheques for the amounts.

  • 20149.

    It was not confined to that ? — No.

  • 20150.

    Then the cheques would give us no clue to it ? — No, it was for the purpose of having as much cash in hand as I could get.

  • 20151.

    Are you prepared to say that you gave Mr. Olds altogether more than £1100 ? — It could not have been much more.

  • 20152.

    What you have spoken to comes to £1250 ? — Yes, it comes to more. Whether I gave Mr. Olds £350 or whether it was one or two smaller sums, I cannot remember now. (Mr. Edwin Hughes.) Perhaps the Commissioners will allow me to assist them here? (Mr. Holl.) I think it would be desirable to know the facts as regards Mr. Olds. (Mr. Edwin Hughes.) You are counting the £400 twice, for this reason: Thomas drew £400 and gave it to Horne, and Horne gave it to Olds, so that the £400 which was put with the £1000 from Calais was paid by Horne to Olds, and does not form part of that which Thomas gave to Olds.

  • 20153.

    (Mr. Horne to the Witness) Did you give £400 to Mr. Horne to give to Mr. Olds ? — I gave it to him, but what it was for I do not know.

  • 20154.

    That was not part of the money that you gave to Olds ? — No.

  • 20155.

    Did you give Mr. Olds £400 besides that ? — Yes, I think so.

  • 20156.

    You did give £400 to Horne ? — Yes.

  • 20157.

    Was that money that came from the Bank of England in London ? — Yes, I think so, but I am not quite certain.

  • 20158.

    And you think besides that you gave £400 to Olds personally ? — Yes.

  • 20159.

    Were all these sums given to Olds at the Royal Hotel ? — Yes.

  • 20160.

    Did you go to his house with any of it ? — It would be all given at the Royal Hotel.

  • 20161.

    I understand you to say that you are not prepared to say that you gave Olds more than £1100 ? — No, I am not.

  • 20162.

    Have you no memorandum or means of enabling you to tell us with a little more accuracy how Mr. Olds had paid to him these sums apart from moneys paid for cabs and carriages ? — No. The only reason, I think, I gave him £1100 is this, that Mr. Hughes said he wanted him to have the £1100.

  • 20163.

    Do you think you gave him more ? — No, that is the reason why, I think, that it must have been £1100. Mr. Hughes said that he would keep an account of the sums.

  • 20164.

    Beyond the £354, £400, and £150, you do not know what further sums you did give, and you say Mr. Hughes directed you to give him £1100 ? — Yes.