Hughes, Edwin | Day 19
Witness Type: Briber, Petition witness
Party: Conservative
Other Days The Witness Was Called On: Day 20
Witness Testimony:
- 19358.
You did commence erecting poles within a day or so after you went down to Deal ? — Yes.
- 19359.
In fact you commenced immediately ? — No, not immediately; not till about the third or fourth day, because I had been postponing it as an absurdity as long as I possibly could.
- 19360.
Are you prepared to say that there were none erected before the third or fourth day ? — I could tell you immediately by looking at the date I paid Spears. I see the first cheque I paid was £7 10s upon the 8th, which is three days after I got down, and then £3 10s upon the 10th, and upon the 12th £30, and then Sir Julian Goldsmid was there, so that I think l am quite right in saying before Sir Julian came the number was not more than 30.
- 19361.
There is £13 10s to Spears upon the 7th, before the £7 10s upon the 8th, and then £13 10s upon the 10th ? — Yes. That is what I paid the first week for poles; and when Sir Julian came down upon the 11th their poles went up, and I had to go on.
- 19362.
When did you first authorise Usher ? — Usher said that Sir Julian’s flags had been exhibited, and I said that the matter had better be left in his hands. He told me that he had done the thing before, and I said he had better do it again, and he did. We bought all the flags that we could get at, at last we were obliged to make.
- 19363.
Do I understand you to say that no flags were commenced making before Sir Julian Goldsmid came down, that no orders were given for them at all ? — Not that I know of. I left it to Usher.
- 19364.
You had authorised Usher before that ? — I told Usher if the other people flew flags we would do so, but I would not have any put up before the others began. They would not take very long to make, because some of them were only pieces of calico cut and just hemmed over on one side.
- 19365.
However, you had given authority to Usher earlier than that to act when necessary ? — I do not know. I told him I would not act till the others flew flags.
- 19366.
Do I understand you to say distinctly that no authority was given to make flags until after Sir Julian came down ? — Yes, that is my impression.
- 19367.
Are you prepared to say that it is a correct impression ? — I certainly said I would not have any hoisted until the other side began.
- 19368.
I am speaking now about the orders for making them, and rosettes ? —I did not control Usher to the extent of saying when he should first begin.
- 19369.
When did Usher first speak to you about it ? — I do not think before Sir Julian came down. I seem to remember people coming in and saying, “There they go; there are flags flying in all directions.”
- 19370.
Do I understand you to say that you gave no authority to Usher to make or order flags until after Sir Julian Goldsmid came down ? — Yes, that is my belief . I refused to have any flags, and I would not have had any if the other side had not.
- 19371.
Have you anything to enable you to fix that date ? — The date upon which Sir Julian Goldsmid came down would be the 11th, and if you find any bills of Usher’s for flags dated before the 11th, it would appear that he had made, or caused some flags to be ordered, before the 11th.
- 19372.
(Mr. Turner.) Were there not flags to be attached to these 30 poles ? — No, they were as bare as possible; no flags were flown whatever until after Sir Julian came down and until after his flags were hoisted.
- 19373.
(Mr. Holl.) The poles were probably put up with the view of having flags upon them ? — Of course; the 20 or 30 poles were put up so that if the other side flew flags we could not have to do everything at the last moment. The dates of Usher’s bills will show when the orders were given. The date of my first £100 to Usher would give you some clue to it, because he would not go on long without money, and I was anxious to pay ready money.
- 19374.
There is £6 14s 10d to Usher upon the 12th ? — That is a very small matter.
- 19375.
Upon May 14th there is a cheque for £100 ? — Yes, that is the first, and Sir Julian Goldsmid came down upon the 11th, so that it is three days after he came down. You may depend upon it they did not begin to make flags until the other side began to fly them.
- 19376.
Although they put up the poles you do not think they began making the flags ? — No, I should not have put up any flags at all if the other side had not. I know it is illegal as far as the payment is concerned, though it does not avoid the seat.
- 19377.
You are aware, I suppose, that the amount that was expended in flags and rosettes was somewhere about £400, besides what was paid to Mr. Cloke ? — Yes.
- 19378.
Altogether it comes to between £450 and £500 spent upon flags and rosettes ? — Yes.
- 19379.
And upon poles £279 ? — No, that would include something else beyond poles.
- 19380.
Poles, watching, and cordage ? — I think that includes advertisements, does it not ?
- 19381.
No, they are separate. A good deal of this money that was expended upon poles was done with the view of employing the longshore men and influencing their votes ? — I have not the least doubt that the object is to conciliate the different classes of the constituency. Every expenditure at an election is for the purpose of winning the election. That is so right through from the beginning to the end of an election.
- 19382.
As to the watchmen employed to watch the poles, that was with the view of giving employment to some parties ? — It is with the view of watching the poles, but there is no doubt that also has the effect of influencing a voter to vote for the side upon which he is employed. That is the effect, though it may not be the object.
- 19383.
One witness in particular told us that a dozen of them together asked you for employment ? — They formed a committee of boatmen, which represented a good number of their class, and that committee were employed to assist in watching the poles and a lot of other things. If I had any doubtful voters that wanted clearing up, I would send the name on to Axon, and he would send information back that he was going to vote for us, or that he was going to vote against us. It was not colourable employment, because they did something for their money undoubtedly.
- 19384.
With regard to the employment of men employed in watching and putting up the poles, that was with the view of influencing their votes, was it not ? — It has the effect. Every penny that is spent at an election has the effect of influencing the votes.
- 19385.
And you were aware of that at the time you authorised the employment ? — Yes; every employment at an election has an influence, certainly.
- 19386.
(Mr. Jeune.) You agree, of course, that there was a great deal more spent in putting up poles than was absolutely necessary for the mere purposes of the election ? — It was not necessary at all to put any poles up; it was pure waste.
- 19387.
(Mr. Turner.) These men, I suppose, were paid more than they would have got for a day’s work anywhere else ? — Yes, I should think they would earn more by putting up poles than they would earn at their ordinary work.