Hills, Edwin | Day 14
Brother-in-law of John Thomas Outwin. Owned the principal brewery in Deal employing 14 men and 30 – 40 public-houses. Used his own money in bribery and treating totalling £48. Paid John Simpson £20 to distribute and influence voters. Wratten was paid £5 on account the other party had promised him that amount. The remaining five voters received £4 each. He testified to spending £6 or £7 in treating.
Party: Liberal
Witness Testimony:
- 16448.
Did anybody other than the voters themselves suggest to you that you should find money for the payment of voters ? — No.
- 16449.
Nobody ? — No.
- 16450.
It was your own idea entirely, was it ? — Yes.
- 16451.
Did you have any conversation with anybody upon the subject of your paying voters, or providing money for paying them ? — I have spoken to Mr Outwin.
- 16452.
To anybody else ? — No, not that I am aware of.
- 16453.
Just try and think ? — No, I think not.
- 16454.
Are you sure ? — Yes, quite sure.
- 16455.
No one at all ? — No one.
- 16456.
You understand what my question is: whether you had any conversation at that time with anyone else besides Mr Outwin, whose name you have given, upon the subject of your or anybody else paying money or providing money for the purpose of its being paid to voters for their votes ? — No, I do not remember anyone else.
- 16457.
Who were you in communication with upon the subject of the election? To whom did you report the progress of your canvassing ? — To Mr Outwin.
- 16458.
To nobody else ? — No.
- 16459.
Are you sure ? — Yes, quite sure.
- 16460.
You say that Mr Outwin was the sole person with whom you communicated in regard to the election ? — Yes.
- 16461.
Did you go to the committee room ? — Yes.
- 16462.
Pretty regularly ? — No.
- 16463.
Did you go there about Friday or Saturday ? — Yes, I daresay I should be there.
- 16464.
What committee room did you go to ? — To the Star and Garter.
- 16465.
Who did you see there ? — I saw the two Mr Ramells, and several more. There was Mr Lowndes.
- 16466.
Anybody else ? — Mr Millen, I think, I saw there, and a lot more, but I forget them now.
- 16467.
You must have seen a great many I should think ? — Yes, there were a great many, but I forget them now.
- 16468.
Unless things are very different with you here than at other places you must have had communication with a good many of what I may call the leading parties. You are the largest brewer, and took an interest in the election, and it is very difficult to believe that you did not have conversations as regards the conduct of it with other persons than Mr Outwin ? — No, I did not. I have never taken an active part in it before.
- 16469.
You took an active part at this election ? — Slightly so, but not so active as some people imagine.
- 16470.
We shall see presently how active you have been. It is a little difficult to believe, but if you tell me so of course I must accept it. It is a little difficult to understand you, holding the position you do, should not be in communication with others of the local leaders besides Mr Outwin ? — No, I have not had any communication with anyone else. I came to the committee rooms and of course talked with different parties, but it was only ordinary conversation, nothing particular.
- 16471.
You must have talked with considerable detail I should think. Was it ever suggested to you how many voters you could provide, or how many voters you could get ? — No.
- 16472.
Did you never say how many voters you could get, or influence, or bring, or provide, or anything of that sort ? — No.
- 16473.
Never ? — No.
- 16474.
Do you really mean that ? — Yes.
- 16475.
You are a person of considerable influence, owning all these public-houses, and capable of influencing a great many persons, and they must have reckoned the chances of success at that time very carefully,. Day by day and hour by hour the active parties must have been adding up what they could do, and do you mean to say they did not ask you what help you could give them ? — No, our influence here is not so great as all that.
- 16476.
I think possibly you underrate it a little. Do you say that you were not asked by persons who were engaged in the election what you could do, and what help you could bring to bear, and questions of that kind ? — No.
- 16477.
Do you mean to represent that ? — Yes, I was never asked that.