Testimonies

Hughes, William John | Day 9

Witness Type: Briber, Treater

Party: Conservative

Witness Testimony:

• 10273.

  What did he say ? —He said, “That is always my plan, directly I go into a place I hire all the houses I can get ;” and I said, ”Oh, well, if that is your plan I have nothing more to say.”

• 10274.

  Did you have any communication with him about the receipt of money, and the expenditure of it ? — No ; Mr. Olds gave me the money.

• 10275.

  And Mr. Olds told you what to do with it ? — Yes.

• 10276.

  You had no communication with Mr. Edwin Hughes about the 480L. ? — I do not remember saying anything to him about it.

• 10277.

  Just think whether you had any communication with him, either before or after you received the 480L. ? — I certainly never mentioned the amount of 480L. to him. I might have said something to him since the election about the payment of voters, but all money transactions I had were with Mr. Olds.

• 10278.

  Do you remember whether you had any conversation with Mr. Edwin Hughes, either before or after you received the 480L. about having received that amount ? — Conversation with him about the 480L. do you mean ?

• 10279.

  I do not say any particular sum, but about your receiving money for the purpose of paying voters ? — I do not remember it.

• 10280.

  Just think ; are you sure you do not ? — I say I do not remember it.

• 10281.

  When you saw Mr. Hughes was there any conversation between you and him about the necessity of paying voters. I suppose you talked over the management of the election at Sandwich ? — No, I had very little conversation with Mr. Hughes at all.

• 10282.

  You talked to him about the PUBLIC-HOUSES ? — Yes, I mentioned that to him at once.

• 10283.

  Did he not ask you what was the way to manage the election at Sandwich, and what sort of people they were ? — No.

• 10284.

  Not a word about that ? — No, I did not say a word to him about the Sandwich people.

• 10285.

  What conversation did take place between you about the management of the election at Sandwich ? — We had no conversation about the management of the election.

• 10286.

  Or what was to be done to help Mr. Roberts’s cause ? — It was merely a passing observation. I made the remark that I thought it a great mistake hiring so many PUBLIC-HOUSES.

• 10287.

  And then he said what you have told us ?- Yes, he said it was always his plan, and I said that I thought it illegal, and he said it was not, the case had been tried before, I believe he said at Westminster, and decided in his favour.

• 10288.

  You had no communication with him about the necessity of having money to pay voters, or anything of that kind ? — No, I saw Mr. Olds about that, I spoke to him upon the subject. I told Mr. Olds it would be necessary to expend some money, and he asked me how much we should want, and I said I could not tell him exactly how much then, but I would let him know.

• 10289.

  And you did let him know ? — Yes. I should like to add, with regard to Mr. Olds, that he told me the other day, after his first examination, that he had lost all the receipts, and wanted to know the amount of money I had from him, and I said. Well, of course, I gave you in the balance sheet a full account, and I cannot tell now off-hand the amount, as I made so many payments, but I should say 450L. ; and upon going through the list of voters I have no doubt it was 480L. That will account for his saying the other day that ho thought I had 450L.

• 10290.

  You are quite right to mention that. Do you remember when about it was you told Mr. Olds that money would be wanted in Sandwich ? — No, I really cannot tell you the time, I was so much engaged.

• 10291.

  You got this money from Mr. Olds upon the Monday, was it not, before the election, the day before the election in fact ? — Yes, it was the day before the election.

• 10292.

  Do you happen to remember how long it was before that you had told him that money would be wanted ? — No, I really cannot say. I am sorry to say I did it at all as it turns out.

• 10293.

  Can you remember whether it was a day or two before that that you told him ? — No, I really forgot, but if I can remember I will let you know.

• 10294.

  Did you see him on the Monday before he sent you the money, or would it be Saturday ? — It was some time previously.

• 10295.

  Not upon the Monday ? — No.

• 10296.

  You cannot remember when it was you saw him ; before he sent you the money ? — No, I cannot remember. Mr. Hooper reminds me that he believe it was upon the Wednesday. (Mr. Hooper.) Mr. Olds drove to Sandwich to meet us at Mr. East’s upon the Wednesday evening previous to the Monday. previous.

• 10297.

  (Mr. Turner.) Was it then that you told Mr. Olds that money would be wanted. (Mr. Hooper.) I think it was then we came to an arrangement about it. (Mr. Turner.) Are you pretty sure, or is it a mere impression ?

• 10298.

  Mr. Hooper.) No, I am pretty sure about it. Mr. Olds drove over to meet us, Mr. Hughes, Mr. Giles, and myself.

• 10299.

  (Mr. Turner to the witness.) After you got this money, when did you mention the subject to Mr. Edwin Hughes ? — Some time after the election I had a conversation about it.

• 10300.

  Do you remember what the conversation was ? — No, I cannot, but the date of Mr. Hooper’s cheque would tell you. It was after the election. I said to Mr. Hughes, “Here are two or three accounts that have been sent to Mr. Hooper,” and he said, “Well, I have nothing to do with them; how is it they were not sent in before.” I said it was not a very large amount, and I was rather indignant about it because I rather thought he seemed to treat us as though we were trying to extort money from him, and I said we would not press it, upon which he said “I will give you a cheque and I told him then about these voters.

• 10301.

  “What did he say then ? — He said, “Oh, I ” have nothing to do with that.”

• 10302.

  That was all that passed ? — He said, “I do not want to hear anything at all about that,” or something of that sort .