Spears, William Frost | Day 5

Volunteer to Mr Hughes, erected poles. Received £250 for erecting and removing poles and three payments of £9 some of which was paid to James Axon.

Witness Type: Briber

Party: Conservative

Witness Testimony:

  • 4351.

    We want you to say what is right; we only want you to tell us exactly what you know ; you see you erected these only two or three months ago, and surely you must remember whether there were 50 or 100 of them, and whether the majority had stays to them, or whether the majority were merely let into the ground 6 or 7 feet, and supported by the ground ? — I should say there were 20.

  • 4352.

    About 20, you think ? — Yes.

  • 4353.

    Of course, I do not expect you to tell me within one or two, but tell me as nearly as you can remember ; with regard to the other POLES, where you had not stays, and which were 50 feet high, do you mean to say you required eight men to put in each poll ? — Yes, they wanted fetching out of the store, and they wanted carrying up to the beach.

  • 4354.

    Did it take eight men to carry a scaffold pole 50 feet long ? — No, perhaps, it might take about four, but I did not stand at that, if anyone was there ; everyone wanted to earn a shilling.

  • 4355.

    Most people who have lived to the age that we have, have seen scaffold POLES erected 50 feet nigh, and, and they do not want more than two or three men at the outside ? — Very true.

  • 4356.

    Why did you want eight ? — Because the people wanted something to eat.

  • 4357.

    You wanted, in point of fact, to give employment to as many as you could ? — Yes.

  • 4358.

    Did you have any payments made by cheques ? —Yes.

  • 4359.

    Not in cash ? — No.

  • 4360.

    Was it all by cheques ? — I think I received once a little money to pay when it was overtime ; only once to the best of my recollection ; with that exception, it was all cheques, which I took to the bank and got the money.

  • 4361.

    I think you are right. I think the bank book shows that your payments were all by cheque. I see there are considerable sums to Pritchard for cordage, 6L. 14s. l0d, and 22L. 6s. 4d., did that pass through your hands ; did you buy the cordage ? — Yes. I went down to Pritchard and ordered it, and let the people have it.

  • 4362.

    Did you pay for it, or was he paid direct ? — I did not pay for it. I had to sign the bill.

  • 4363.

    (Mr. Jeune) What was the first cheque you had from Mr. Hughes ? — To the best of my recollection, I think it was 9L.

  • 4364.

    Was that drawn upon the National Provincial Bank here ? — I never noticed the cheques ; all I know is I took them into the bank, and Mr. Spain gave me the money. I never noticed what bank they were upon.

  • 4365.

    The first cheque does not appear to have been entered in the pass-book; I see “Spears, No. 2, 71 L. 10s.” There seems to be no No. 1 to you, or if there was it is not entered here ? — I did not notice what bank they were upon. I took the cheque to the bank, and laid it down, and they gave me the money, that is all I know.

  • 4366.

    Might the first cheque have been for 13L. 10s. ? — No.

  • 4367.

    You are sure it was 9L. ? — I am almost sure. I would not be positive, and why I am sure of it is that there were six POLES put up, and 65 people to put them up, so that I think the first cheque I drew was 9L., to pay 65 people.

  • 4368.

    That was 10 1/2J men to a pole ? — Yes ; and they shared something like 2s. 8d. or 2s. 9d each, to the best of my recollection.

  • 4369.

    (Mr. Holl.) It would be more than that, if it was 13L. 10s. ? — I cannot be sure, but I am almost certain it was 9L. for six POLES at first, and there were 65 men to share the money. I recollect that very well.

  • 4370.

    (Mr. Jeune.) Your second cheque appears to have been for 7L. 10s. ? — I would not answer for that ; all the money I received was shared by the men ; nothing stuck to my fingers.

  • 4371.

    You say that you had one payment in cash ? — I am almost sure I had, but I do not know the amount ; it was a small amount ; I am almost sure of it, but sometimes I got half tight, and cannot recollect.

  • 4372.

    The POLES were hired ? — Not that I am aware of.

  • 4373.

    (Mr. Holl.) These sums that you were paid were simply for erecting ? — Yes, putting them up. I never paid anything for them. We had got a lot of masts upon the beach, and Mr. Denne, I believe, lent Mr. Hughes POLES from his stores, and what we wanted we went and fetched.

  • 4374.

    They were scaffold POLES, I believe ? — Yes.

  • 4375.

    You say for the first six erected you had 65 men ? — Yes.

  • 4376.

    Sixty-five different men ? — Yes.

  • 4377.

    Or did you have the same men to each pole ? — No, all different ; loafers along the beach ; bricklayers, boatmen, and anybody who came along; they all joined in.

  • 4378.

    You let as many join in as liked ? — It did not matter to me. I did not care. I liked to see everybody get a shilling if I could. There are the people on the beach, and everybody can go and inquire of them.

  • 4379.

    How long did it take 10 men to erect one of these POLES ? — Perhaps it would take a couple of hours ; as fast as you very often dig the beach it fills up again ; you are obliged to make a big hole to put them in.

  • 4380.

    You would not have more than two men to dig at a time ? — There were some down chucking it up to others to chuck it away again ; the beach runs in so it is not like earth.