Ramell, John Pettet | Day 4

Some discrepancy over the amount he received. Also his brother William Henry Ramell, raised concerns over whether putting up the flags was legal. An Act of Parliament had outlawed ‘colouring elections’ a quarter of a century earlier.

Mr Baldwin was paid for materials for flags.

Witness Type: Briber, Councillor / Alderman

Party: Liberal

Other Days The Witness Was Called On: Day 5

Witness Testimony:

  • 4053.

    If you ask me, I do not particularly see ; at any rate, you had two sets of WATCHERS ? — Even this time we had the ropes cut, and the poles pulled down, which I had to pay extra for out of my own pocket to have them put up again; and that is what we had the WATCHERS for.

  • 4054.

    How much did you pay those WATCHERS ; do you remember ? — I think it was 5s. each a night.

  • 4055.

    And for how many nights did they watch ? — Four nights.

  • 4056.

    That would be 1L a-piece ? — Yes.

  • 4057.

    That would be 12L., which accounts for the 11L. 15s. and a little more ? — I do not think it was that amount, but I cannot exactly say.

  • 4058.

    Now taking down the staff is 16L 10s. How many men were employed to do that ? — That is wrong also. The whole amount together was 26L., I recollect.

  • 4059.

    How many men were employed to take the poles down ? — I agreed with the men that they were to take the poles down at 5s. each, but I have not paid many of them, because when they took the poles down they did not bring the ropes back ; and I told them I should not pay them till they brought the ropes back.

  • 4060.

    Someone has told us that the ropes were considered a perquisite to the persons who took them down ? — I did not consider it so, and I do not think it right. I expected to get the best part back to help pay certain amounts that I spent myself.

  • 4061.

    As a matter of fact, I am afraid you did not get the ropes back ? — I did not. Perhaps I may have got 4 cwt. back, and that is all.

  • 4062.

    Were the 12 WATCHERS mostly voters ? — I expect the principal of them were, but I am not certain about that, because I do not know who they were, as I did not appoint them myself.

  • 4063.

    Can you give me the names of the people you employed to watch ? — I cannot. I know Foyles was one. In fact he was the principal man, and we looked to him to get others.

  • 4064.

    Ho is a voter ? — Yes. He was the one who had the arrangement of putting up this particular pole.

  • 4065.

    Then there is “Use of capstain, ground, and materials, 8L. 12s. ;” was that for putting up the poles ? Did you use the capstain for putting up the poles ? — After giving the order to the boatmen to put up the poles, and supplying them with the poles, then the next day they brought me in an account for hire of ground, which I did not bargain for at all. Here is one receipt, ‘’ For hire of Seaman’s Hope Stage, South ” Side, 2L”

  • 4066.

    Where is the Seaman’s Hope Stage ? — Just off here.

  • 4067.

    How many poles were put up there ? — There were two stages belonging to two brothers, and I think there were four poles put upon them.

  • 4068.

    An open bit of ground, I suppose ? — Yes ; it is where the boats lie.

  • 4069.

    It is not used for anything at this moment, or at other times, but is a perfectly open piece of ground ? It is their own ground, and they use it for their boats up to lie on.

  • 4070.

    They charged you 2L. for four days for four poles ? — Yes ; they asked me 20L., so I got off pretty well I think.

  • 4071.

    You thought at any rate that 2L. was enough ? — I think I got off pretty well.

  • 4072.

    Perhaps you think now that 2L. was too much ? —I did not bargain for it at all.

  • 4073.

    Who is Mr. Caskell ? — He is one of the owners.

  • 4074.

    He is a voter, I suppose ? — Yes.

  • 4075.

    That accounts for 2L. out of the 8L. 12s. What is the other 6L. 12s. for ? — I have got another receipt of 2L. from a Mr. Nash for the same thing, and I paid Finnis of the “Fox.”

  • 4076.

    How many poles were there upon Mr. Nash’s ground ? — Two. Finnis at the “ Fox ” I paid 2L.

  • 4077.

    Was the rest of the 8L. 12s. for the same purpose, spent in the same way for hire of ground to put up the poles ? — I expect it was. I cannot say just to a little ; but I can remember those three, and I have got the receipts.

  • 4078.

    Nash is a voter, I suppose ? — Yes.

  • 4079.

    That accounts for about 188L. of the 208L. which you received ? — Yes.

  • 4080.

    How was the remainder spent ? — I have a receipt here of 25L. for band.

  • 4081.

    Is this (handing a paper to the witness) the account that you sent to Mr. Edwards ? — Yes. One or two of these are bills that were put in through me, and which are not mine.

  • 4082.

    I will go through them. Philip Finnis for rope, 34L. 7s. 3d. ; did you pay that ? — No.