Cloke, Frederick Spencer | Day 4

Sub agent for Mr. Crompton Roberts under Mr. Edwin Hughes.

Thanked and commended by the Commissioners on his comprehensive and satisfactory evidence. Was paid £250 as a fee and £95 15s 3d for disbursements. Some of the payments were made by William Godfrey Thomas.

Witness Type: Briber, Petition witness

Party: Conservative

Witness Testimony:

  • 3607.

    0f course a thing of that kind must connect itself with the name either of the house where it took place, or with the person by whom it was ordered ? — I think it was merely in general conversation with various persons I heard it. I think one person who told me about it was Mr. Hughes, of Sandwich, who will be before you. Probably if any one did know he would know it.

  • 3608.

    Mr. Hughes, of Sandwich, not Mr. Edwin Hughes ? — Quite so; or Mr. Hooper, he might know. Perhaps I should have said Mr. Hooper rather than Mr. Hughes.

  • 3609.

    Then you cannot tell me any houses at which treating took place ? — No, I never heard any houses mentioned.

  • 3610.

    Did you see any treating taking place on the day of the election ; did you see any people going into public-houses on the day of the election ? — No, I was engaged entirely in the committee room.

  • 3611.

    All day ? — Yes. I had no opportunity of seeing. There is one thing I want to say, one bill, I take it, is for treating, which I received a week or two ago, after the hearing of the petition. It was not sent in to me, but to Mr. Baker, and he handed it to me. It was made out to him. It seems that persons had gone there stating that he had sent them, but he says he has no knowledge of it, and never sent anybody.

  • 3612.

    Is that Mr. Charles Baker ? — No, Mr. Frank Baker. He told me when he gave it me that he told the person it certainly was not to be paid, and he had not authorised it or given any directions whatever. There it is (handing the same to the Commissioners). I did not find it when I sent the papers over. It is the only bill I received of any sort with the exception of those I sent.

  • 3613.

    Who is S. Oakley ? — I think he is at the “King’s Head.”

  • 3614.

    Is it another bill you have in your hand ? — No, it is the envelope in which it came.

  • 3615.

    With the exception of that, have you any knowledge more than you have told us of any treating taking place on me Conservative side ? — Not of any treating.

  • 3616.

    I see there is a charge for the hire of carriages ; were those carriages hired by your order ? — Yes. Some of these were before the election. We had several times to come down to Deal, and could not come down by train very well.

  • 3617.

    The charge is 20L. 6s. 6d. ? — Yes; they are moderate charges.

  • 3618.

    I suppose that 20L. 6s. 6d. was found quite sufficient for the carriages at Sandwich ? — Oh yes, amply sufficient. That included as I tell you conveyances to Deal. I had to come to Deal in the afternoon of the polling day, and I came down in the evening to a public meeting in the same town once or twice in addition. I think his bill was very moderate, but it was certainly amply sufficient.

  • 3619.

    Now there is a longish list of people who have been paid for various services ; three were paid as WATCHERS, were those people engaged by you ? — They were engaged by Mr. Hughes, but they were engaged by my authority. Mr. Hughes saw me and said he had heard there was a conspiracy to tear down all the flags and things of that kind, and said these three men were willing to be about all night for two or three nights for 1L. or 30s. if they actually caught anybody doing damage, and I told him he might engage them for that, and he engaged them.

  • 3620.

    And they did not catch anybody, I suppose ? — No.

  • 3621.

    And they were paid 3L. ? — Yes.

  • 3622.

    Were they voters ? — I do not know. Their names are signed to the receipts, the vouchers for that 3L. I know personally very little about the voters in Sandwich.

  • 3623.

    Do you know if the receipts are among the list of vouchers ? — Yes, you will find them on the blue forms probably.

  • 3624.

    Were there three of them ? — Yes; there is another man as well.

  • 3625.

    Is that Drayson ? — Yes, that is another man I omitted in sending in the account. I sent in a man named Clarke and omitted Drayson. Drayson was employed and Clarke was not. Drayson was watching to see what he could find out on the other side, and was employed about nine days. I found that was right, so I paid him 3L.

  • 3626.

    Was he paid on the principle of having a larger sum if he found out anything ? — No, he was not.

  • 3627.

    Did he find out anything, do you know ? — I think not. Mr. Hooper will know really more about him than I do ; he told me he had earned his money fairly.

  • 3628.

    Mr. Drayson is a voter, I suppose ? — I believe he is ; indeed, it was almost impossible to employ anybody except lads, who were not voters, or connected in some way with voters.

  • 3629.

    You paid him ? — Yes.

  • 3630.

    Did you appoint him ? — I believe I did tell him ; he saw me, and said, he thought there would be bribery going on, and I told him, somewhat early, when the rumours began to get about, and before Sir Julian came down, I believe, that he was to look about, and find out what he could, and I would pay him as a messenger really.

  • 3631.

    What is Drayson ? — A ropemaker or a matmaker or something of that kind.

  • 3632.

    Has he got any business which he conducted ? — He works for himself, but I do not think he has any shop, or anything of that kind.

  • 3633.

    If he had any business at all, how could he have devoted his time to watching ? — I do not think he had much business, he is a poor man.

  • 3634.

    A poor man, is he ? — Well, when I say a poor man, I mean he is a respectable man, a man to whom I should not think the amount paid was at all excessive, and a man who might be fairly expected to earn his money. If you see him I think you will say, it was not a very extravagant sum to pay him.

  • 3635.

    You were paying 3L. to the man to watch, I suppose ; he made no report to you, did he ? — I refused to pay him at first, after the election, and then I saw Mr. Hooper. He said Mr. Hooper knew he had worked hard, and I asked Mr. Hooper about it and he said, “Certainly he had,” and he understood that I had engaged him, and he worked hard, and under those circumstances I paid him. I did not pay him, you see, until a long time after the election. You will see the precise date of the receipt when I paid him.

  • 3636.

    Oddly enough it is not dated ? — Is it not ; my impression is it was not paid till after the petition.