Hughes, Edwin | Day 19
Witness Type: Briber, Petition witness
Party: Conservative
Other Days The Witness Was Called On: Day 20
Witness Testimony:
- 19328.
You took certain steps to secure the interest of different classes for the Conservative candidate ? — Yes, exactly. I can, if you desire it, put that bill-sticking business perfectly right.
- 19329.
I presume, besides the mechanics and working class there, the principal classes would be publicans, boatmen, and the tradespeople ? — I understood that the boatmen formed the turning element in the constituency; whichever way the boatmen went would be the main point.
- 19330.
I presume you knew that the publicans also formed a considerable body ? — Yes, they always do, they and their acquaintances and . They always have a dozen or so, more or less, in their parlour company, and that is of itself an influence no doubt.
- 19331.
I think, to use an expression that you just now used, the publican element was a very important element to obtain ? — Yes, one of the elements, and I desired to secure it by the best means I could.
- 19332.
Were the means that you took to secure the publican interest the taking of rooms at the different public-houses ? — Yes, certainly.
- 19333.
I think you took rooms in Deal and Walmer to the number of 70 or 71 ? — Yes, something like that; a large number, certainly.
- 19334.
And at Sandwich, 18 ? — My sub-agent at Sandwich took something like that number. I thought it was 17, but it may have been 18.
- 19335.
That was in fact, as you now know, a considerable portion of the public-houses ? Yes, about two-thirds, I think.
- 19336.
They were, I think, taken generally at a sum of £5 each ? — Yes, I served them all alike so that there should be no grumbling.
- 19337.
One or two had more, I think ? — Yes, then were two had £10 each, but £5 was the run. There was one at £10 at Sandwich, the chief hotel there and the Royal Hotel at Deal was £10, but all the others were £5.
- 19338.
Had the rooms been engaged to any extent before you went there ? — Yes.
- 19339.
By whom ? — It was arranged by Mr. Olds, but they had not been paid when I went down.
- 19340.
I believe they were all paid the day that you went down, or the following day ? — They were paid within three days, and my object was very simple: the price was low, and I wanted to settle it at that before they made any higher demand.The price was considered very reasonable.
- 19341.
In that way you secured, to a great extent, the publican interest ? — Practically I secured the use of a room in each particular house and the bill-sticking upon the outside, but there is no doubt that indirectly it influences the publicans to take an interest upon your side of politics, though nothing was said about that.
- 19342.
And probably they would vote for you ? — I do not think that it influences the votes to the extent it has been argued, because some of the publicans may be paid for their votes separately. I do not think it would be correct to say that the £5 included the vote.
- 19343.
The object of taking the rooms was to a great extent to influence the publicans in their votes ? — Yes, but not to buy their votes.
- 19344.
And also to secure, if possible, their influence with their clientèle ? — Yes, the object of doing every act at an election is to influence the election, but there was no thought of the £5 covering the vote in any way; there was nothing said in this way, ”Of course you will vote for us.”
- 19345.
I think in respect of those houses there was something like in round numbers £500 paid ? — Whatever is in the accounts is right; it may include meetings, but I am not sure of that, as I have not seen the accounts for some months. I may say that the publicans as a class were upon our side, and supposing I knew a publican to be a Conservative I should feel myself quite bound to give him an opportunity of letting his house.
- 19346.
You did not go round to ascertain whether they were Conservatives or Liberals before engaging them ? — No, certainly not. If they were Conservatives they were entitled to let a committee room as a reward for being Conservatives, and if they were Liberals it was better to have a committee room to prevent them, if possible, from injuring us.
- 19347.
In one instance it was taken for the purpose of securing the vote, and in the other it might influence the getting of the vote ? — Yes, quite so.
- 19348.
About £500 was expended in securing houses in that way ? — Yes, I think so.
- 19349.
The next thing that you did was to secure the interest of the boatmen and the longshore men ? — I set to work upon the whole constituency the same day.
- 19350.
Taking the classes separately, you took steps to secure the interest of the longshore men, and the boatmen ? — Not specially them more than anybody else; everybody who had votes.
- 19351.
Amongst others, you did take steps to secure the interest of the boatmen and longshore men ? — Yes.
- 19352.
And among other means you used was that of erecting poles ? — No, erecting poles was really a laughable affair; there were about 30 put up the first week, and that was all.
- 19353.
Do you mean to say that not more than 30 were put up the first week ? — That is all.
- 19354.
Are you sure of that ? — Yes, I think so.
- 19355.
Did you take any means to ascertain how many were put up the first week ? — I know that very few were paid for; there was one by the main committee room, and two or three others at principal points.
- 19356.
You gave authority for Mr. Usher to act for you ? — No, Usher had nothing to do with the poles; it was William Spears. They came to me about the poles, and I said, ”Poles are not illegal, but flags are,” and I said that I did not think we should want any, and they said that we should be sure to want some.
- 19357.
You say you think there were about 30 poles erected the first week ? — Yes, that is all.