Testimonies

Usher, Thomas James | Day 4

Witness Type: Briber, Petition witness

Party: Conservative

Witness Testimony:

• 3761.

  Mr. Edward Kynaston ? — Yes ; he is a gentleman living at Walmer. This was the first election at which he, I believe, has been an elector here.

• 3762.

  Mr. Henry Spears, is he an active man ? — Yes.

• 3763.

  Are there any others which you remember at this moment who are what one may call active ? — There are so many that one can scarcely recollect. If I went down the list I could point out the names as I came to them.

• 3764.

  Mr. Simmons met, you say, Dr. Hulke, Mr. Nethersole, and yourself ? — Yes.

• 3765.

  What then took place ? — He simply stated that he had come down from Mr. Crompton Roberts, who would meet us, if agreeable, the next day, he would come on to Deal. He did come the next day, and we met him at the Royal Hotel, I think it was, at half past 12. Mr. William Nethersole had an engagement that day, he could not meet him, so that Dr. Hulke and myself saw him.

• 3766.

  Dr. Hulke and yourself met Mr. Crompton Roberts at the Royal Hotel ? — Yes.

• 3767.

  At that time was any arrangement made between Mr. Crompton Roberts, Dr. Hulke, and yourself as to what steps should be taken ? — No, nothing at all. He simply came down to offer himself as a candidate in the Conservative cause. I then arranged that same evening to have a meeting at . the Royal Hotel of some few gentlemen from Sandwich, some few from Walmer and Deal, to decide as to who we should adopt as a candidate, as we had two other gentlemen who had also offered themselves. We had the meeting at the Royal Hotel that evening, but the meeting did not come to any final decision. There was an officer in the Royal Marines who I believe was contesting Gravesend, he offered himself, and we were hesitating between Mr. Crompton Roberts and this gentleman. Whilst we had the meeting this officer of the Royal Marines sent in his card to Dr. Hulke, and he came in, so we had Mr. Crompton Roberts and him both there that evening, but we came to no decision.

• 3768.

  When did you come to a decision ? — On the 4th of May, I think it was, when we saw that Mr. Knatchbull Hugessen had been raised to the peerage, and that Sir John Adye was going to fill his place ; the papers said that it was arranged that Sir John Adye would take his place, but as we were not parties to the arrangement we meant to upset it.

• 3769.

  What arrangements did you make ? — I immediately telegraphed to Mr. Crompton Roberts in Mr. Nethersole’s name — Mr. Nethersole was away. I saw Dr. Hulke first, and I telegraphed to Mr. Roberts that I thought he had better come down at once. We had a meeting that evening, several gentlemen came from Sandwich and Walmer, and we decided to nominate Mr. Crompton Roberts at the election. Mr. Crompton Roberts arrived whilst we were discussing at the meeting, and was unanimously adopted as a candidate, and he was advised then to get to work canvassing as soon as possible. Next day I had a business engagement in Canterbury in the afternoon, and I was obliged to go away, in the meanwhile I put on two or three clerks to arrange the register in street lists as far as possible. I came back from Canterbury by the 7.40 train reaching Deal, and on my arrival I was informed that a gentleman had come down from London to conduct the election for Mr. Crompton Roberts. I was then introduced to Mr. Hughes. He came to my office. He said, ”I do not want to interfere with you in any way if you want to conduct the election.” I said, “No, you are much better able to conduct the election than I am.” He put the papers in his pocket, he went to the Royal Hotel, and the next day I turned over the staff of clerks which I had engaged to him.

• 3770.

  Before it was decided, and from the time it was decided, to adopt Mr. Crompton Roberts as a candidate, did any conversation take place between you as to the expense of fighting the borough ? — No.

• 3771.

  Was it not said that it was necessary to have a man who had got means and would spend money ? — No, I never mentioned anything about monetary affairs to Mr. Crompton Roberts at all, and I never heard anything mentioned to him in my presence.

• 3772.

  Nothing was mentioned to him in your presence ? — Not in the slightest degree.

• 3773.

  You say you handed over all your papers to Mr. Hughes ? — I did.

• 3774.

  Did anyone request you to undertake any department ? — Yes. I think, about three days after that, I will not be sure whether it was three days, I had a heavy sale on, and I could not attend to anything but my own business, and I did not go near the committee room for a couple of days, but on the third day, I think it was, I was down at the committee room. People bothered Mr. Hughes for flags and colours, and he said, “I wish someone would take this off my hands. ” I said, ” What is it ? ” He said, “To look after the flags and colours. I suppose we shall be bound to have them, but we shall not have them unless the other side do.” I said, ‘Very well, I will undertake anything of that sort”

• 3775.

  You say Mr. Hughes came down on the 5th ? — Yes.

• 3776.

  You were engaged for two or three days ? — I will not be sure. I expect this would be about Friday, about the 7th.

• 3777.

  You said you would undertake that department ? —Yes.

• 3778.

  Did he give you authority to do what you thought proper with regard to that ? — He said, ” I will leave it entirely in your hands.”

• 3779.

  He did not give you any instructions as to what you should do ? — Nothing at all. He simply referred everyone who asked him for flags to me, and that was a very great many.

• 3780.

  He authorised you to do what you thought necessary ? — Yes.

• 3781.

  Then you did, in point of fact, take the whole of that department yourself ? — I did, for Deal and Walmer. I ultimately gave up Walmer, some few days afterwards, and left it in the hands of Marley, because I had quite enough to do with Deal.

• 3782.

  You seem to have done your work very efficiently ? — I had the credit of not doing it half enough.

• 3783.

  Did you take any part in this election except in this flag and colour department ? — None at all.

• 3784.

  Not in canvassing ? — No. There are some extracts from the bills (handing same) which I think have already been filed, as to what was actually supplied in the shape of flags and colours.

• 3785.

  I see you sent in an account of what you had either paid or rendered yourself liable for ? — Yes. I may explain that I made the payments at different times. As soon as I had incurred responsibilities to the amount of 100L I sent to Mr. Hughes and asked him for a cheque.

• 3786.

  I will ask you about that. Before I go to the account I will ask you this, you gave orders for certain goods ? — Yes.

• 3787.

  And as soon as you had incurred, as you say, responsibilities for about 100L. you sent and asked Mr. Hughes for a cheque ? — I did.

• 3788.

  You got a cheque from him ? — Yes, about a day or two afterwards.

• 3789.

  How soon after did you get that first cheque, do you remember the day ? — I do not. The cheque was payable to bearer. I went to the bank and got the money, and went and paid the accounts myself or sent my clerk. I paid them immediately.

• 3790.

  You cannot remember what day that was ? — I cannot, but I think it is stated on the particulars which I furnished, on the Petition inquiry.