Testimonies

Testimonies

• 16.

  Be good enough to fetch it? — I will, my Lord.

  [The Witness withdrew.]

  Mr. Day requested the returning officer to produce the list of election expenses, and a list of vouchers and receipts.
  The same was produced; The Court examined the bills and vouchers.

  [Mr. Justice Lush (to Mr. Matthews).] You have not seen the bills.
  [Mr. Matthews.] Not the details.
  [Mr. Justice Lush.] There are 70 receipts of £5 each: vouchers for 70 committee-rooms at public-houses, and there is this remarkable feature about them all, that they are hired and paid for on the 6th of May, the election being on the 18th, and the peculiar form is, “For the use of committee-room when required.”
  [Mr. Matthews.] Those houses were chiefly used as advertising stations.
  [Mr. Justice Lush.] The payment is made before the election and the form is, “For the use of the room when required.”
  [Mr. Matthews.] Quite so, practically. Only if they were required or used as committee-rooms. They were chiefly required and used as advertising stations. The houses were plastered over with bills upon which I have something to say to your Lordships.
  [Mr. Justice Lush.] In the summary list we have got down £5 for each, amounting to £350; 70 houses at £5 each. The sum charged in the summary is, “Committee-houses, £527.” That is signed by Mr. Hughes, so that you must have had nearly double that number.
  [Mr. Matthews.] I think not.
  [Mr. Justice Manisty.] Here it is under Mr. Hughes’ own hand; I suppose before the regular committee rooms there was more paid.
  [Mr. Justice Lush.] Mr. Day’s statement is very nearly borne out by the receipts. It will save a great deal of evidence. Is the registrar here? We want to know how many of these are non-voters.
  [Mr. Day.] The returning officer will have that.
  [Mr. Justice Lush.] Your client has not seen them.
  [Mr. Day.] We should like to have this, for the purpose of analysing them.
  [Mr. Justice Manisty.] This requires no analysing.
  [Mr. Day.] No, we shall want to trace the other committee-rooms.
  [Mr. Justice Lush.] A great part of your particulars go to this item.
  [Mr. Day.] I thought there was a band.
  [Mr. Justice Lush.] Yes; a band of music, in direct defiance of the Act. There is £24 for musicians upon the polling day.
  [Mr. Day.] Those are not introduced eo nomine, therefore I want to analyse the items.
  [Mr. Matthews.] I am told that there is an analysis of the vouchers which brings them together, and will show your Lordships exactly how the matter stands.
  [Mr. Justice Manisty.] That does not give half of the items; it is lumped, “Committee-houses, £527.” That is why we want the whole of the vouchers; but there is really £5 paid for each.
  [Mr. Day.] I shall have to call evidence to show the character of these houses.
  [Mr. Justice Lush.] It will save an immense amount of evidence, having gone through these accounts.
  [Mr. Matthews.] I have counted the houses.
  [Mr. Justice Lush.] Then there must be a considerable amount added to make up the amount.
  [Mr. Day.] Seventy-one houses are for Deal and Walmer; there is Sandwich besides. I stated to your Lordships that 62 of the 71 were occupied by voters. I believe your Lordships will find that to be correct; where the receipts are given by the men, they are practically all voters.
  [Mr. Matthews.] Many of them are known supporters of the Liberal candidate; and many of the public-houses had bills up for both colours. They were the only advertising stations that could be got in Deal.
  [Mr. Justice Lush.] We should like to hear evidence upon that point, and also as to what proportions of the 71 are voters; I suppose by far the larger proportion.
  [Mr. Day.] Out of the 71 in the particulars, we say 62, as appears here, are voters.
  [Mr. Justice Lush.] Whoever put down the figures can come and prove that the persons are voters.
  [Mr. Matthews.] I am told that the bulk are on the Register, but some of them are not.
  [Mr. Justice Lush.] Those that I have got down here contain only Deal and Walmer.
  [Mr. Day.] I will call a gentleman who has gone through the register, and he will tell you that out of the 71, 62 are voters.
  [Mr. Justice Lush.] We want to know how many of these are voters; secondly, how many other public-houses and beerhouses there are in the different places that were not engaged; that is to say, how many were left; and, thirdly, how many of them had bills of both parties up.

• 16.

  That, I presume, includes some persons who are entered twice ? – Yes, undoubtedly.

• 17.

  Can you give any idea of the numbers who would be entered twice ? – No, not to be of any use. I can give you the number presently that actually polled at the last election. At a guess I should say that you might take off a hundred for duplicate entries.

• 18.

  There will be some persons who are dead, or who have removed ? – Yes, of course.

• 19.

  Do you think that 2,000 would be a fair estimate of the actual constituency ? – Yes, something over 2,000.

• 20.

  (Mr Turner.) At the present moment ? – Yes, and that will be added to in a few months.

• 21.

  (Mr Holl.) Can you tell me what numbers of the constituency are applicable to Sandwich, Deal, and Walmer, as distinguished from each other ? – The Sandwich electors, 571 ; Deal, 1,233 ; Walmer, 311, making altogether 2,115.

• 22.

  How are the voters divided – some freemen, some occupiers ? – Some freemen, some occupiers, and some lodgers.

• 23.

  I do not know whether you can tell us what proportion are rated as occupiers, what proportion as freemen, and what proportion as lodgers ? – The total freemen are 143, Sandwich householders 442, and one lodger; Deal, 1,217 occupiers with three lodgers ; and Walmer, 309 occupiers. If you wish it I could show you the numbers in by-gone years, and show the decrease of the freemen and increase of the householders.

• 24.

  Can you tell me the numbers who polled in the election for 1868 ? – I have got the total upon the register for 1868.

• 25.

  What was the constituency in 1868 ? – 1,906.

• 26.

  What was the number for the Liberals ? – In 1868, Hugessen 933, Brassey 923.

• 27.

  And for the Conservatives ? – 710. In that year the constituency rose very largely, in consequence of the household suffrage.

• 28.

  I do not know whether you can tell us what proportion are rated as occupiers, what proportion as freemen, and what proportion as lodgers ? – The total freemen are 143, Sandwich householders 442, and one lodger; Deal, 1,217 occupiers with three lodgers ; and Walmer, 309 occupiers. If you wish it I could show you the numbers in by-gone years, and show the decrease of the freemen and increase of the householders.

• 29.

  Can you tell me whether this is correct ; population in 1831 12,183, and in 1832 electors 916 ? -1,008 I make it in 1831-2.

• 30.

  In 1861, what was the population ? – 13,733.

• 31.

  In 1868, what was the constituency ? – 1,906.

• 32.

  In 1871, what was the population ? – 14,885.

• 33.

  And in 1874, what was the constituency at the time of the election ? – 2,046.

• 34.

  The number of electors in 1880 was 2,115 ? – Yes, just so.

• 35.

  Tell me if this is a correct statement of the polling at the different elections from 1857 downwards – 1857, Hugessen, Liberal, 547 ; Lord Clarence Paget, Liberal, 503 ; J. McGregor, Conservative, 322, and J. Lang, 24 ? – Yes,

• 36.

  In 1859, Hugessen, Liberal, 497 ; Lord Clarence Paget, Liberal, 458 ; Sir J. Ferguson, Conservative, 404, and W. D. Lewis, Conservative, 328 ? – Yes.

• 37.

  In 1859 there was a bye-election ? – Yes.

• 38.

  And at that election Mr. Hugessen, Liberal, 463 and Mr. Ferguson, Conservative, 283 ? – No, 180 it appears from my papers. This was a bye-election upon Mr. Hugessen coming down for re-election after taking office, and probably many who voted for Sir J. Ferguson before thought it unfair to oppose Mr. Hugessen under such circumstances ; this, I think, would account for the small number of votes recorded to Mr. Ferguson compared with the recent poll.

• 39.

  In 1865, Hugessen, Liberal, 494 ; Lord Clarence Paget, Liberal, 477, and Mr. Capper, Conservative, 413 ? – Yes.

• 40.

  In 1866 there was a bye-election, at which Mr. Capper, Conservative, polled 466, and Mr. Thomas Brassey 458 ? – Yes.

• 41.

  In 1868, Hugessen, Liberal, 933 ; Henry Brassey, Liberal, 923, and Baron de Worms, Conservative, 710 ? – Yes.

• 42.

  In 1874, Henry Brassey, Liberal, 1,035 ; Hugessen, Liberal, 1,006 ; H. Hallett, Conservative, 764, and H. S. Baillie, Conservative, 611 ? – Yes.

• 43.

  In 1880, April, Mr. Henry Brassey, Liberal, and Mr. Hugessen, Liberal, were unopposed ? – Yes.

• 44.

  Then the election in May last, Mr. Crompton Roberts polled 1,145, and Sir Julian Goldsmid 705 ? – Yes.