Testimonies

Testimonies

• 435.

  Had you any canvass books ? – Yes, we had canvass books.

• 436.

  Do you know where they are ? – Yes, I can put my hand upon them I think – the canvass books which denote the promises which we have ascertained.

• 437.

  Had you reports from time to time ? – Simply in this way. When Sir Julian Goldsmid came in from a canvass of an hour or two, or something of that kind, I asked him, “Where have you been to ?” so as to endeavour to keep the best account I could in my own book to see how he was proceeding. That was my system. Then in the same way we also took down decided promises from those who were canvassers for this voluntary committee as it were.

• 438.

  In that way I suppose you kept made up from your different books or reports a list ? – Yes, it was a very difficult thing to do, but we kept the best account we could.

• 439.

  You kept the best account you could of the persons you thought you could rely upon ? – Yes.

• 440.

  Were any clerks employed upon the work ? – In marking the books, it always depended upon me and the committee clerk, Mr. Woodruff. We used to keep the two books and nobody else. One was a canvassing book, which was kept by myself, or what we call a committee book, and a book was also handed to the candidate.

• 441.

  The candidate had his canvassing book and you had your canvassing book in which you marked the names of your persons and his too ? – Yes.

• 442.

  How many clerks had you employed as committee clerks ? – Only two. Mr. Woodruff and the assistant clerk, I forgot his name.

• 443.

  Then these gentlemen whom you have mentioned are the only persons I may take it at Sandwich who took any particularly active part in the election ? – Yes, I think those are the only ones who took any particularly active part. There is Mr. Dorlman, but he did not take an active part and did not canvass. He simply took an active part by calling in at the committee room to enquire how we were preceding. He did not take an active part, and I think you are desirous of ascertaining those who were actively engaged.

• 444.

  Did you employ any messengers ? – Yes, there were several messengers.

• 445.

  How many ? – I am not prepared to state although I have been all through them. I do not know how many.

• 446.

  Were there any men or boys employed to carry boards ? – No, we did not make use of anything of that kind. There was a certain number of messengers and a certain number of boys who attended on the day of the election. Some of the messengers were engaged during the active part of the election, but there were certain messengers employed who were appointed at the instance of a voter. A man comes and offers his services and he is employed. Our messengers were not overdone on this occasion. I think I have nothing to say with regard to the messengers.

• 447.

  You think there was not an excessive number ? – No, I think not.

• 448.

  With regard to the expenditure for messengers we will take that when we come to the accounts. May I take it from what you say that in your opinion there was no excess in the employment of persons in any kind at Sandwich on the part of the Liberal party ? – No not as messengers.

• 449.

  Were there any class of people ? – No, not in employment, certainly.

• 450.

  There were a considerable number of public-houses, were there not ? – Yes, there were.

• 451.

  How many ? – Do you wish me to say anything with regard to public-houses ?

• 452.

  I should like you to do so ? – With regard to the account, which to a great extent I am answerable for to Mr. Brown, the election agent, it is a fact he did not give any order during the election, or at any time, but what expenses were incurred I am responsible to him for, and there is one item in particular which refers to public-houses. There are two sums of 20L, which I gave to Mr. Coleman ; one 20L. was given at an early period of the election for the expenses of the election, and more particularly he was directed to keep down the number of public-houses. You cannot prevent the treating ; it is an impossibility ; but my direction to him was to every morning visit those public- houses, and prevent bills being incurred. He will show you by details that he followed those instructions, and 20L., 40L. altogether, was also expended, as the account will show you, in paying for rosettes and things of that sort.

• 453.

  To pay for rosettes and colours ? – Yes. There were some bills incurred for banners and rosettes which have not been paid for now. I am only speaking now of the actual payments, but inasmuch as there were two 20L.(40L.) which will appear in the expenses which were recognised by the agent for election expenses at my request, I simply thought it was right to explain to him how it was expended. That was in the hands of Mr. Coleman.

• 454.

  And that was actually expended you say in rosettes ? – No, a portion of it. Some of it was expended in keeping down the treating in public-houses and paying the morning scores, the morning bills, and the other was, as I say, spent upon these receipts, and so on.

• 455.

  Some portion of it was spent in having at different public-houses scores run up by persons, by our own friends, the evening before, or something of that kind ? – Of course, there were instructions given not to permit treating at public-houses, but, notwithstanding that, it was impossible to prevent it, and in order to prevent the bills at the termination of the election, I took this money to pay them every morning, so that we should have no public-house bills ; but after the election we had public-house bills delivered to us to the extent of 89L., which have not been paid.

• 456.

  Can you give me the names of the public-houses that he went round to ? – Yes, he has prepared and can give you a list, showing the details of his expenditure.

• 457.

  You cannot give it to us, I suppose ? – No, I have not it here.

• 458.

  What is Mr. Coleman’s Christian name ? – Benjamin Longden Coleman.

• 459.

  What is he ? – He is a farmer, market gardener and so on, and a greengrocer at Sandwich.

• 460.

  In what street ? – In King Street.

• 461.

  Then there were certain public-houses, of which he will give us the names, where he went to ? – In order to prevent the very thing which occurred afterwards.

• 462.

  He went down with the view of paying whatever was incurred ? – Yes, but, notwithstanding that, we had these bills delivered afterwards, amounting to 89L. (handing the same to the Commissioners). I have brought those bills. Those bills were not handed in to the Judges, because we had not them at the time ; they were in the hands of Mr. Lewis. That is a list of the public, house bills as they were delivered, but those bills have not been paid, none of them whatever. That is the 89L. Those are for some of our own voters, and no doubt any friends of theirs who went into these public-houses in the evening to sit down.

• 463.

  These, I understand, have not been paid ? – No, these have not been paid, but the particulars of the items that have been paid at the public-houses Mr. Coleman will give you the detail.

• 464.

  Are these the same houses that he went round to when he paid the bills ? – Yes.