Hughes, Edwin | Day 19
Witness Type: Briber, Petition witness
Party: Conservative
Other Days The Witness Was Called On: Day 20
Witness Testimony:
- 19598.
And this cheque for £600 was given directly after Sir Julian Goldsmid appeared on the field ? — Yes, certainly.
- 19599.
By that time you had made up your own mind I suppose, that what you call the antidote would in all probability have to be administered ? — No, I was in hopes that it would not be necessary, but it was done as a precaution. I thought it would be as well to have available funds, and place them as far off as possible, so that they could not be got at too early.
- 19600.
“Available funds” means available for the purpose of this antidote ? — Yes, certainly, because I had enough for other purposes.
- 19601.
Did you communicate any part of those feelings to Mr. Crompton Roberts ? — No, certainly not, and advisedly not.
- 19602.
You simply asked for more money, and did not tell him what it was for ? — No.
- 19603.
He did not ask you what it was for, and you did not tell him what it was for ? — No.
- 19604.
And he drew the cheque in the name of Mr. Hoare ? — Yes.
- 19605.
Did you not suggest that that cheque should be drawn in the name of Mr. Hoare ? — I do not think I did.
- 19606.
Then how came he to draw it in the name of Mr. Hoare ? — I do not know. He knew I was going to London.
- 19607.
It was a cheque to bearer ? — Yes. He has given his own reason for it. I do not dispute that reason; I neither confirm it nor deny it.
- 19608.
You were glad, or at any rate were willing, to take it in the name of Hoare, because it effected a convenient separation of the account ? — Yes, certainly.
- 19609.
And of course, as you knew perfectly well, it would have the effect of making that cheque appear in the pass book as being a cheque to Mr. Hoare ? — Yes, no doubt that is the effect of it.
- 19610.
And for that reason it was exactly what you wanted; that it should be drawn in the name of Hoare, or in any other name except yours ? — As far as I was concerned, it would have been just as well to have had the written order upon the partner without any cheque at all.
- 19611.
So long as your name was kept out of it, and so long as your name did not appear in the pass book, that was all you cared about ? — An order upon the partner for an unlimited amount was sufficient without the cheque.
- 19612.
For the moment I was upon the £600 cheque; the reason why you liked to have it drawn in the name of Hoare was that you did not wish your name to appear in the pass-book ? — I do not think I can say I felt it in that way at all, because if I had felt that it was necessary to have it in the name of Hoare, I should have asked him to do it.
- 19613.
But if he did it without your asking, that did as well as with your asking ? — He did it without my asking, I think.
- 19614.
And you accepted it as a happy accident. With regard to the pencil note, when was that given to you ? — In the train.
- 19615.
After the £600 cheque ? — Yes, within an hour of it.
- 19616.
How came you, between getting the £600 and obtaining that memorandum, to think that you should want more money? Why did you not ask for an unlimited order at first ? — I cannot tell you that.
- 19617.
Did you intend that the £600 should go in illegitimate purposes, or contemplate that it might ? — I contemplated its going to the Bank of England.
- 19618.
That was settled upon this journey ? — No; that money remained at the Bank of England till after the election.
- 19619.
You contemplated, I suppose, that the £600 should be part of the money that you spoke of just now ? — Probably so, if necessary.
- 19620.
And the sum to be drawn by the unlimited order was to be within the same category ? — Yes, certainly, but I think the destination of the £600 was not so clearly for an illegitimate purpose. It was for the purpose of putting into the Bank of England, although its destination ultimately changed.
- 19621.
(Mr. Turner.) It was lodged in the names of five persons for an illegitimate purpose, I suppose ? — I will explain the purpose at your pleasure.
- 19622.
(Mr. Jeune.) When you asked Mr. Crompton Roberts to give you that unlimited order, did you ask for it in that form or did you ask simply for money ? — I said I was going to London, and of course to get away from an election, even for a day, was a very important step to take, and a thing I did not like doing. I knew it was not likely that I should go to London again till after the election was over, and I knew myself that if anything was to be done in regard to money it must be done then, and I said to Mr. Crompton Roberts, “You had better give me an order to set money from your partner, because what I have will not be enough.”
- 19623.
And he took your advice ? — Yes, the whole thing was done in five minutes.
- 19624.
It was upon your advice and request that he gave it to you ? — Yes. He could not give me a cheque at that moment, as we were riding in the train, and he scribbled a note upon a piece of paper which he tore out of his pocket book, I think, and gave it to me.
- 19625.
(Mr. Holl.) I understand that at the time you got this £600, you asked for it with the view of its being in hand to be applied to an illegitimate purpose, if necessary ? — I do not say the £600 was so much got for that purpose, but it was so applied ultimately.
- 19626.
I thought you said it was asked for for that purpose, because you said you wished it to be drawn in some other name than your own ? — I did not say that I requested it to be so drawn.
- 19627.
You said that you wished it so drawn, and as long as it was not in your own name, you did not mind ? — If it had been drawn in my name, it would have gone into the account for the election.