Hughes, Edwin | Day 19
Witness Type: Briber, Petition witness
Party: Conservative
Other Days The Witness Was Called On: Day 20
Witness Testimony:
- 19568.
(Mr. Holl.) Did you say anything about it to him ? — I merely asked him for so much money.
- 19569.
Did you make no comment, or did no conversation take place at all between you as to its being drawn payable to Hoare ? — No, not in the least, and from my point of view it was just as well in that name as in any other. As long as it was not in my name I did not care in what name it was.
- 19570.
Are you sure that no suggestion was made by you that it was desirable that it should not be in your name ? — No.
- 19571.
(Mr. Jeune.) Why were you anxious that it should not be in your name ? — None of that money upon that day was for the legitimate purposes of the election.
- 19572.
And that was the reason why you did not wish the cheque to be in your name ? — Yes.
- 19573.
(Mr. Holl.) I understand you to say that as regards the £600 and the £1400l, you wished it to be kept separate because it was being provided for a purpose that could not be disclosed ? — Yes, but at the same time which I hoped would not be necessary.
- 19574.
Which at any rate was a purpose that could not be disclosed, or that it would be desirable to disclose ? — Yes.
- 19575.
(Mr. Turner.) When did Mr. Roberts know that you had lodged this money in the name of the five people at the Bank of England ? — He does not know it now so far as I know. I never told him.
- 19576.
(Mr. Holl.) Did Mr. Crompton Roberts know at this time that you were anxious that this cheque should be drawn in a manner that would prevent its being traced ? — The candidate never heard from me about any money being appropriated for an improper purpose. He would be the last person to whom I should say anything because it would affect him with knowledge which would be dangerous, and it would be my duty to keep knowledge from him.
- 19577.
How came he to give you this cheque for £600? I suppose you made a request ? — I said that I wanted some money for the purposes of the election.
- 19578.
Is that all that passed ? — Yes.
- 19579.
And he gave you a cheque for £600 ? — Yes. And why he gave it for £600 any more than £500, or £700, I do not know. He gave me a cheque for £600, and I said that it would not be enough, and I suggested that he had better give me some sort of memorandum to his partner who would attend to it.
- 19580.
Why should he give you a memorandum to his partner instead of giving you a further cheque ? — It was in the train that the conversation took place, and of course there was no convenience for writing a further cheque in the train. He wrote the memorandum in the train.
- 19581.
You got out of the train together ? —No, I was going on to London, and he was getting out at Sandwich, and it was at Sandwich that he gave me the pencilled note.
- 19582.
(Mr. Turner.) This is the same day that you had ascertained that Sir Julian Goldsmid’s party were going to bribe ? — Yes.
- 19583.
And a cheque was got to meet that ? — So as to be prepared with funds later on if necessary. It was to have ammunition in store in case it was necessary to do anything.
- 19584.
(Mr. Holl.) Do I understand you to say that you have no idea whatever yourself why this cheque was drawn payable to Hoare ? — No, I have not indeed.
- 19585.
You made no suggestion as to how it should be drawn in any way ? — No, I certainly did not.
- 19586.
You have told us that you thought it desirable it should not be in your name ? — It was just as well.
- 19587.
Did you tell Mr. Crompton Roberts that you thought it better it should not be in your name ? — No.
- 19588.
When you asked him for a cheque, and you were anxious that it should not be in your name, did you not suggest it to him ? — No, I never suggested it, and if that cheque for £600 had been in my name it would have been included in the accounts, and it is a mere accident, so far as I know, that it was not.
- 19589.
You say yourself that you wanted it for a purpose that you did not want to include in the accounts ? — You must bear in mind that the appropriation of that £600 in the first instance was a proper appropriation because it went into the Bank of England.
- 19590.
You say the object of getting that money in the first instance was for the purpose of doing that which you did not want to disclose, and that being the object, would you not suggest to Mr. Crompton Roberts that it would be better that the cheque should not be drawn in your name ? — I do not remember doing so, though it is possible, of course.
- 19591.
You were saying that you heard that bribery was going on, or was likely to be going on, upon the Thursday. Did you tell Mr. Crompton Roberts that ? — No, I did not.
- 19592.
(Mr. Jeune.) You talked with Mr. Crompton Roberts about the way in which the election was going on ? — No, I very seldom had any conversation with him about it.
- 19593.
In going up in the train from Deal to Sandwich you had a conversation about it ? — There were other people in the carriage, and we said very little.
- 19594.
You saw Mr. Crompton Roberts from time to time ? — Very seldom; once in two days perhaps.
- 19595.
Still at those times you did see him ? — That would be at a committee meeting, or public meeting.
- 19596.
Where was this cheque for £600 actually given to you ? — At his house where he was staying in Deal. We were alone then, no doubt, together.
- 19597.
He had given you a cheque two days before for £500 ? — Yes.