Testimonies

Foord, Charles Ross | Day 16

Witness Type: Other

Party: Liberal

Witness Testimony:

• 17911.

  Where do you carry on your business ? — Acorn Wharf , Rochester, and also at Sheerness and London.

• 17912.

  Have you known Sir Julian Goldsmid long ? — Yes, I think my first acquaintance with him personally was soon after the death of the late Sergeant Kinglake, about 10 or 11 years ago. Mr. Kinglake died in 1870.

• 17913.

  Since that have you acted for Sir Julian Goldsmid at all in any capacity ? — What do you mean by “acted.”

• 17914.

  Have you been in any way connected with him, and if so, how ? — I have always recorded my vote for him, and of course I have been an active partisan of his.

• 17915.

  Have you in any way interfered in his pecuniary affairs or transacted business for him in any way ? — My elder brother has generally paid all Sir Julian Goldsmid’s expenses, that is to say his registration expenses, subscriptions, and such like; in fact Sir Julian Goldsmid very seldom pays any money without consulting a member of our firm.

• 17916.

  (Mr. Jeune.) Is your brother a partner of yours? — Yes.

• 17917.

  What is his name ? — John Ross Foord.

• 17918.

  (Mr. Holl.) Have you or your brother acted for him financially in any other way ? — I do not know. My brother may have done one or two little matters for private friendship. We are not financial agents in any way.

• 17919.

  I think Sir Julian Goldsmid has said there was some transaction in which you or your brother had acted for him, in connexion with some purchase ? — Yes, I think my brother did.

• 17920.

  Do you know anything about the details of that transaction at all ? — I do not. I know nothing about it. It would be a matter that I should have nothing to do with.

• 17921.

  (Mr. Jeune.) When was it ? — Four or five years ago.

• 17922.

  (Mr. Holl.) Who has been in the habit of acting principally for Sir Julian Goldsmid, you or your brother ? — My brother.

• 17923.

  Do you yourself personally know the extent to which your brother has acted for him ? — If you mean in amount, I do not.

• 17924.

  I mean in financial matters. Do you know whether he has acted frequently, or only occasionally ? — Not frequently. Whenever Sir Julian wanted to pay a subscription, my brother always paid it for him. My brother has enough to do to mind his own affairs.

• 17925.

  Can you tell me what amounts of money you have disbursed for him or paid on his account ? — No. If you want to know anything about Sir Julian Goldsmid’s private affairs, you must go to my brother. I am the wrong man, because I know nothing. Let me ask, really has this anything to do with the Sandwich election.

• 17926.

  (Mr. Jeune.) I think it has a great deal to do with it ? — That is a matter of opinion.

• 17927.

  (Mr. Holl.) Did you or your brother forward any money to Sandwich in connexion with the election which took place in May 1880 ? — Yes, I took down 1,500L.

• 17928.

  Perhaps you will tell me first, how did happen that you took down 1,500L. to Sandwich ? — Upon the 13th May, at about 11 o’clock, I received a telegram from Mr. Belsey, who, I was aware, had gone down to speak at a meeting upon the previous night, to say that he wished to speak to me upon the arrival of a train about noon. I will not say exactly what the words of the telegram were, and I went to the post office to try and get it, and found that they had been all sent to London, but this was the effect of it, — would I be in the way about noon on the arrival of the train at that time.

• 17929.

  At Rochester? — Yes. About 12 o’clock Mr. Belsey came into the office in my own private room, and said that he had come up from Sandwich, and Sir Julian Goldsmid would be very much obliged if we would forward a sum of 1,500L. upon his account to Mr. Emmerson at Sandwich. I replied that that was a -matter I would rather not interfere with; that it was a question of money, and I would send for my brother who I knew was down at the gas office. I sent for him, and I said to Mr. Belsey, “As a matter of course, if Sir Julian wishes us to do it, personally, I should like to do it,” and when my brother arrived, it was arranged that I should go to London, that I should take a cheque up on our London bankers, and draw the sum of 1,300L.

• 17930.

  1,300L. or 1,500L. ? — Neither. I am wrong. That I should draw the sum of 1,200L., because there were 300L. in our iron chest over and above what we should require during the week, which would make up the sum of 1,500L. At first starting, Mr. Belsey said that the sum of 1,200L. or 1,500L. was to be sent down, and we decided in as much as it would not make any difference to us whether it was 1,200L. or 1,500L., that the larger sum should go down to Mr. Emmerson. The next morning, by the first train, I left Chatham, and I arrived at something between 12 and 1 o’clock, I think, at Sandwich.

• 17931.

  What day was this? — The following day, upon the 14th, the Friday. I arrived at the station, I got there it was my intention to go to Mr. Emmerson. I knew at this time that Mr. Emmerson was a solicitor in good practice, and also agent for Sir Julian Goldsmid ; as I was passing out of the gate, a gentleman came to me and said, “Are you from Rochester”. I said “Yes. Are you Mr. Emmerson,” and he said, “Yes.” He had a cab, and I drove off in the cab to Mr. Emmerson’s office, and I then handed over to Mr. Emmerson the sum of 1,500L. Mr. Edwards, the gentleman whom I was afterwards told was Sir Julian’s agent at Deal, came into Mr. Emmerson’s office, and I then handed over the sum of 1,500L.

• 17932.

  (Mr. Turner.) In gold? — Yes, I can give it to you exactly; there were four London Joint Stock bags 200L. a-piece, making 800L .; there was another one of 100L., making 900 sovereigns coming from London, and also three other bags of 100L. each coming from London, making 1,200L. Then there were also two bags of mixed gold, that is, sovereigns and half sovereigns, containing 300L, making altogether 10 bags, containing 1,500L. in gold.

• 17933.

  (Mr. Holl.) As I understand it, Mr. Belsey, after you received his telegram, came down to Rochester and saw you? — Yes.

• 17934.

  And he gave you instructions to do what you have told us ? — He asked us to do it. He did not instruct us, because, as a matter of fact, we should not allow him to instruct us.

• 17935.

  He asked you to do it ? —Yes.

• 17936.

  Will you tell us, as near as you can, what it was Mr. Belsey requested you to do ? — To take down to Mr. Emmerson, who was Sir Julian Goldsmid’s agent, the sum of 1,200L. or 1,500L., as it was not convenient for Sir Julian Goldsmid to hand over the cheque to him, or words to that effect. I should not like to say what the words were exactly, but at any rate that was the purport of it. We knew that Sir Julian Goldsmid wished us to send down to his agent the sum of 1,500L., and we did it with a great deal of pleasure.

• 17937.

  (Mr. Turner.) Were the instructions to send it in gold? No, there was nothing said about gold, or notes, or anything of the sort. First of all I may say I should not think of sending cheques down, because you must recollect Bank Holiday was upon the Monday, and Saturday was a short day, and there was a question whether I could have gone down upon the Friday. I rather fancy it was not supposed that I should get down before Saturday. Mr. Belsey also told me that they would want the money upon the Saturday, in as much as there were a great many weekly payments to be made, which I did not understand much about, such as men for hoisting flags, and things of that description. Of course Mr. Belsey was perfectly aware, and I was aware, that it was a most unusual thing to ask a candidate for payment in advance, for work done; but still, when we were told it was necessary, we did it. I do not think that I have anything more to add.

• 17938.

  Did Mr. Belsey say anything to you about that? — Yes; he told us that there were a lot of men to be paid in respect of hire of rooms, hoisting flags, messengers employed, and that the payments must be made weekly, or words to that effect, or must be paid off at once.

• 17939.

  (Mr. Holl.) Do I understand that you had no instructions as to sending it down in gold ? – No instructions at all.

• 17940.

  Are you quite sure of that ? — Yes. Who would instruct me to send down gold ?