Trollope, James | Day 7
Was given the money to pay his men £3 each. Complained he had a hard job getting them to accept £3 when the Conservatives were promising £5.
Party: Liberal
Witness Testimony:
- 7551.
(Mr. Turner.) What are you ? — A builder.
- 7552.
Where do you live ? — Grove house, Lower Walmer.
- 7553.
What did you receive ? — 38L. altogether ; in two lots I think it was.
- 7554.
From whom ? — From Mr. Rose.
- 7555.
What were the lots, pray ? — Let me state first a little about it. I had got information from one of my men that the Conservatives were about, and were trying to bribe them. I went round and saw Mr. Rose about it, and he said it was a pity, but that I should try to hold them on for a time.
- 7556.
Perhaps you will answer my question first. You received these two amounts in two lots ? — Yes.
- 7557.
What was the amount of each lot ? — I cannot say exactly ; I think one was 12L., and the other was 26L.
- 7558.
What did you do with it ? — I used it for the purpose for what it was given to me for.
- 7559.
What was that ? — That was to pay my men 3L. each, if they would take it, rather than take the 5L. which a great many of them was offered by the Conservatives, else I should have had nothing to do with it.
- 7560.
It was to pay your men 3L. each, if they would take it ? — If they would take it, rather than vote for the Conservatives, I can assure you I had a hard job to get some of them to take it.
- 7561.
When did you hear this about your men ? — I think it was about the same time that Sir Julian came down.
- 7562.
You had heard that the Conservatives had offered 5L. ? — My men told me so, and I daresay, if they were here, they would tell you the same; some were offered 8L. ; in fact, some were so audacious that they came into my place during working hours to solicit votes which is a thing ungentlemanly ; they might have waited until the men had done their work. There were one or two Conservatives, and some I asked what they were, and they were Liberal ; a man ought to go as he likes.
- 7563.
Did you distribute this 12L among your men on the day of the election ? — That I did out of my own pocket, before I got anything.
- 7564.
You paid them 3L. yourself before you. got anything ? — Yes, the same day, and I was running rather short, and, I think Mr. Rose gave me the remainder the next day.
- 7565.
The 26L. — Yes.
- 7566.
How was that applied ; have you got a list ? — Yes, I have a list of all of them, and here are the vouchers of the men who had the money. (Handing some papers,)
- 7567.
There are eight 3L. I make out here ? — That is for Deal voters.
- 7568.
Walmer parish there are three three pounders, making 33L. Then there is paid for refreshments 18s., four dozen ROSETTES 1L. 16s., three FLAGS including making and writing 1L. 10s., three flags erecting and taking down same 1L., making 5L. 4s. That is 38L. 4s. Is that all you receiyed ? — I received 38L.
- 7569.
Then you spent 4s. out of your own ? — Yes, I took the men to vote ; that you have on the list.
- 7570.
Who did these men who received 3L. promise to vote for ? — They promised me they would not take any money from the Conservatives, and would vote for Sir Julian Goldsmid.
- 7571.
Did you have any other money at all ? — No, nothing at all, I am out of pocket, I think, somewhere about 5L.. altogether. I think I sent in a very modest sum for three guineas, and that they could not pay for the POLES, I supplied all the POLES for Lower Walmer, and as you have heard there was quite a forest of them.
- 7572.
(Mr. Holl.) These are the receipts ? — Yes those are the receipts for the money. I took the management of the men myself. We got the bows, and we put up our own POLES.
- 7573.
I want to ask you one question ; you say they solicited the Conservatives to vote at your place as early as the time when Sir Julian Goldsmid came down, but are you right in saying that at that time you heard anything about bribery ; was not the bribery later ? — We heard, but I do not know whether it was true or not, that bribery was going on at the commencement ; it is the first transaction I have heard of the kind.
- 7574.
You heard that there was bribery ? — But I do not know whether it is true ; you cannot speak, by rumours.
- 7575.
Paid for refreshments, 18s. ? — That is on the day of the election. I took my own men, with my own horse and trap, because I knew there were such temptations laid before the men if you do not look after them ; and you must expect it, especially when they have a lot of little children, and not doing much, a man perhaps earning 1L. a week.
- 7576.
Was that 18s. for treating your men ? — I was no paid canvasser, and I had nothing for no committee room, although my house was used. I gave them my time.
- 7577.
Do you find that men in that position are open to be bought ? — No, not all.
- 7578.
Most of them ? — There is a lot of men who do not know nothing about politics, they merely hold out both hands, and whoever will put the most in, some will go and vote ; and some are not so good as that, because they will take from both sides. When others come and hear that this man is going Liberal, and going to be paid for it, the other will say, “I am Liberal, why should not I be paid, as well as the other man ?” That is my experience, and I have had a little of it.
- 7579.
With regard to the majority of them, do you find that men in that position are open to be bought ? — The lowest of them are.