Baldwin, Theophilus Collins | Day 6

Supplied ribbons, flag materials and rosettes to both sides. Said that neither order affected his vote. It is unknown on which side his allegiance lay. Received orders for flags from John Ramell, rosettes from Edwin Cornwell and for Conservative ribbons from another draper, Mr. Chapman who was not called to testify.

Witness Type: Other

Witness Testimony:

  • 5467.

    (Mr Turner.) You are a DRAPER in Deal ? — Yes.

  • 5468.

    We have two BILLS of yours, one for 7L. 9s. 6d., which appears to be chiefly for ROSETTES and pins, and another for 35L 10s. l 1/2d., for twill and those kind of things ; who ordered you to supply them ? — Mr. John Ramell ordered the stuff for the FLAGS, and Mr. Edwin Cornwell the ROSETTES.

  • 5469.

    When was the stuff for the ROSETTES ordered, amounting to 7L. 9s. 6d., because there is no date to your bill ? — I should say one portion was four days before the election.

  • 5470.

    That would be about the 14th ? — Yes, and the second portion on the day before the election.

  • 5471.

    I see, with regard to the 35L. 10s., the first entry is May 10th ? — It is a mistake, it should have been the 11th, on the Tuesday. Mr. John Ramell came to my shop on Tuesday, May 11th, and told me he would be responsible for all stuff I supplied for FLAGS to Mr. William Ramell, who had to make the FLAGS. I simply supplied him with the stuff from Mr. John Ramell ‘s orders.

  • 5472.

    You have your books here ? — Yes.

  • 5473.

    Would they show the supply of all these things ? — Yes, just as upon that bilL

  • 5474.

    What were the prices; election prices ? — No, just the same prices as I should charge now to any ordinary person.

  • 5475.

    Is this the first time you have supplied such things at an election ? — In 1874 I supplied ROSETTES to the extent of IL

  • 5476.

    There were a great many more ROSETTES supplied at this election than in 1874 ? — From me there was, at any rate.

  • 5477.

    Did you supply stuff for FLAGS in 1874 ? — No stuff for FLAGS in 1874 at all, with this exception, after the election I supplied some FLAGS for a sort of demonstration of the Liberal victory, and it amounted to about 4L.

  • 5478.

    All you realised at that election was 5L. ; 1L. for ROSETTES, and 4L. for the Liberal demonstration. The 4L. was after the election, making 5L. for the election altogether ? — Yes.

  • 5479.

    Whereas here you have the benefit of 43L. ? — Yes.

  • 5480.

    Were you going about upon the day of the election ? — Yes.

  • 5481.

    Did you see a much greater display of FLAGS and ROSETTES than in 1874 ? — Yes, very much more ; in fact in Deal I never have seen such a display as there was at the last election.

  • 5482.

    Had you anything more to do with the election ; was any money given to you to distribute ? — No, that is all I had to do with it, except of course taking a general interest in it.

  • 5483.

    We have heard that there was nobody who took an interest in the last election, you did ? — Yes, I had a political interest.

  • 5484.

    We have been told that there was no political interest ? — I should like to say this, that I served Mr. Chapman, the DRAPER, with RIBBONS for the Conservative colours to the amount of about 8L. 18s., which is not paid for.

  • 5485.

    Have you been paid ? — No.

  • 5486.

    Have you applied for payment ? — I have applied for payment to Mr. John Ramell, and I have applied to Mr. Chapman, and he has not paid, nor has the other party.

  • 5487.

    Why has not Mr. Chapman paid you ? — I do not know.

  • 5488.

    Has he been paid himself ? — When I asked him once he said he had not been fully paid, but whether he has been paid since, or not, I do not know.

  • 5489.

    Do you say you supplied both sides ? — I served Mr. Chapman simply privately. He came to my shop and he said he had an order from the Conservative committee, could I serve him with the Conservative RIBBONS, and of course I did so in the ordinary way of business.

  • 5490.

    Which was first, the Conservative or the Liberal order ? — The Liberal order. Mr. Chapman came to me about Saturday previous to the election.

  • 5491.

    The Liberal order was, roughly speaking, about 35L. ? — No, the Liberal order altogether would he about 43L., that is to say, 7L. 9s, 6d, for ROSETTES, and stuff for FLAGS, 35L. 10s.

  • 5492.

    And the Conservative order was for 8L. 10s. ? — The exact amount is 8L, 18s. 4d.

  • 5493.

    The Conservative order did not effect your vote at the election, I daresay ? — No, not at all ; if I had no order I should have voted the same.

  • 5494.

    Did the Liberal order affect your vote ? — No, not at all.

  • 5495.

    (Mr. Holl.) The goods that you supplied to Mr. Chapman on the Conservative side were only a portion, I suppose, of what he supplied ? — I do not know anything about what he supplied ; he simply came to me in the ordinary course of business.