Testimonies

Ramell, William Henry | Day 5

Witness Type: Briber

Party: Liberal

Witness Testimony:

• 4704.

  We understand you are a painter ? — Yes.

• 4705.

  We have heard from your brother yesterday that you were employed to paint some flags ? — Not particularly to paint them.

• 4706.

  Tell us what you did ? — I had to make them. I had them made. You have a statement of my account there, I think showing what I did.

• 4707.

  Is that a business you generally carry on- making FLAGS ? — When they are wanted, but it is a thing not very often wanted in Deal.

• 4708.

  Did you ever make any before ? — Yes, thousands —hundreds.

• 4709.

  Was that on election occasions ? — Yes, and other times besides. I said thousands, and no doubt perhaps I have made thousands.

• 4710.

  What instructions did you get from your brother ? — My brother came to me on the morning of Sir Julian Goldsmid’s coming down over night and said that he had received instructions from Mr. Edwards to get some POLES erected and some FLAGS made, because he saw there were some POLES up on the other side, and he had no doubt our people would want the same. He asked me whether I would mind doing it. I said, ” Oh no! I will do it.” Accordingly he went with me round to all the DRAPERS— certain DRAPERS whom we knew had always voted on the liberal side, and he gave them instructions to supply me with the material for these FLAGS, and not to let anyone else have it, but either himself and me. Accordingly I had some on that day, and I made a few FLAGS. Well, it struck me very forcibly at night— I had heard talk about these illegal acts— I cannot agree with the Legislature there that it is an illegal act, but we will not argue that.

• 4711.

  We will not trouble about that ? — No. I think it is not an illegal act.

• 4712.

  Kindly tell us what you did ? — It struck me, as this is an illegal act —

• 4713.

  Who said that ? — I said so to myself— as this is an illegal act I do not think I will go on with this job. I was a little bit put aback by the drag— seeing the drag here rather frightened me. I did not like the appearance of that drag, I know what it is. We had a Downs Docks affair here once, and this had very much the appearance of the Downs Dock.

• 4714.

  Do you mean by a drag a four-horse carriage ? — Yes, a four-horse drag. Well, I got up early next morning, and I went to my brother and said, ” John, I am going to strike this job. I do not mean to have nothing to do with any more FLAGS ; I think, as the Legislature says it is illegal, I should not like to do anything that would injure Sir Julian Goldsmid if there came a contest, and,” I says, “ Now you go and see Mr. Edwards ; ” and at 10 in the morning he went to see Mr. Edwards, with instructions from me to say I thought it was not right. He came back from Mr. Edwards to me to say he had seen Sir Julian — he understood that Mr. Edwards had seen Sir Julian, and it was an understood thing on both sides that FLAGS would be allowed. Accordingly I did the FLAGS, and you have the statement of my account there, and I will answer any questions about it. I worked through the whole week, night and day, making those FLAGS, and I think I made about 300. Unfortunately I had not got another helper in the town. Our friends on the other side got so many that can make FLAGS, and I was alone in doing so.

• 4715.

  Your brother came back and told you what Mr. Edwards had said, did he ? — The instructions he got was that Sir Julian Goldsmid said, Oh it was an understood thing on both sides, that they would have FLAGS.

• 4716.

  That is what he understood from Mr. Edwards ? —Yes.

• 4717.

  Tell us exactly what he said ? — He said that Mr. Edwards had said— these are the words, I think, he said, and no doubt it is correct — that Mr. Edwards had seen Sir Julian Goldsmid, and it was an understood thing on both sides. It generally was an understood thing on both sides, and that we were to go on with it. Accordingly I went to work, and, I think, I made I should say about 300 FLAGS.

• 4718.

  Have you got any memoranda, or any books, to show how many you made ? — Nothing whatever. I had no time to enter things, or anything of that sort ; my time was fully occupied. I do not think I had an hour’s sleep the whole time.

• 4719.

  Kindly merely answer the question. Have you any memoranda or book ? — No, none whatever ; only what I gave in.

• 4720.

  Have you any memoranda of what quantity of material you had delivered to you ? — No.

• 4721.

  Then you have nothing to show in writing at all what quantity of material you received, or how many FLAGS you made ? — No, nothing.

• 4722.

  What memoranda have you handed in, do you say ? — Sometime after the election was over Mr. Edwards wanted to give a statement of accounts in to, I suppose, Lewis and Lewis, and I made up from memory (and I have not a bad memory) a statement of account, and gave it to my brother for him to present to Mr. Edwards, and that is the account that you gentlemen have.

• 4723.

  What did that show on the face of it, do you remember ? — All that I paid.

• 4724.

  But did it give any details ? — Yes, it gave the details of what I paid, and the whole amount, and what I have received.

• 4725.

  What you paid to the different people ? — Yes, the different people, for sewing.

• 4726.

  What you paid to those people you employed to assist you in making the FLAGS ? — Yes, the people that I gave the work out to.

• 4727.

  Did you take receipts from those people ? — None whatever.

• 4728.

  You say you paid these sums ? — Yes.

• 4729.

  And you have no receipts or vouchers for them ? —No.

• 4730.

  There is, “Paid men for labour, 6L 10s.”— Yes, that was men that came up and assisted on my premises.

• 4731.

  Do you know who they were ? — Yes, several of them. There was a man named Nicholls, and a man named Moult, that was one of my own men, a painter, and a man named Clements.

• 4732.

  He is put down separately at 1L. 10s. ? — That is another Clements, the father.

• 4733.

  Have you any memorandum or account showing what these people did for these sums ? — No, none whatever.