Testimonies

Cornwell, Edwin | Day 4

Witness Type: Other

Party: Liberal

Other Days The Witness Was Called On: Day 11

Witness Testimony:

• 3906.

  (Mr. Turner.) What are you ? — A gentleman.

• 3907.

  You appear to have taken an active part in this election, on the part of Sir Julian, at Deal ? — I suppose I might call myself almost private secretary to Mr. Edwards, more than anything else.

• 3908.

  I see from the return made by Mr. Edwards that you appear to have taken upon yourself the employment of the messengers ? — No, I did not ; they were employed by Wyman and Lownds. I paid them, but not employed them.

• 3909.

  You appear to have paid them a sum of 124L. 2s. ? —Yes.

• 3910.

  What class of people were those messengers ; principally watermen ? — Boatmen. There were a few some tradesmen’s sons, and some board boys.

• 3911.

  Have you any list of them ? — Unfortunately, Mr. Edwards has lost the list, but I have a rough copy of the account. I handed in the list to him. There is every amount, and the total (handing an account to the Commissioner). You will see an item of 23L. 6s., and 99L , making up the amount

• 3912.

  There are no names here ? — No. I handed the list to Mr. Edwards, and Mr. Edwards appears to have lost it

• 3913.

  How many messengers were there then ? — I think there were something like 230 or 250.

• 3914.

  For Deal ? —Yes. They were not all employed upon one day, you will understand. Perhaps 30 or 40 were employed upon on the day, and 30 or 40 upon another, and soon.

• 3915.

  They were not employed all through the election ? — Some were employed for two days, and some for the whole time. Where there were messengers who were really useful to us, such as we could depend upon, they would be kept on right through.

• 3916.

  Had you many applications to employ them ? — Yes ; we could have employed double the number.

• 3917.

  You employed more than you wanted because of the number ? — Yes, they are the greatest nuisance in an election.

• 3918.

  How many regular messengers did you employ throughout the whole time ? — I should think perhaps 20 or 30.

• 3919.

  Out of the 200 ? — Yes ; the others were employed every day.

• 3920.

  What did you pay them ? — The board boys we paid 2s, a day ; if they were a little older we paid them 2s. 6d ; young lads 3s. or 3s. 6d. ; young men 4s., and the men 6s.

• 3921.

  Boys who were employed at 2s. a day — what age were they ? — I should think they were 10 or 12 years old.

• 3922.

  They were messengers ? — They were board boys — not messengers — carrying boards.

• 3923.

  You say they were all employed, but some of them were employed every day ? — Every day.

• 3924.

  Every day during the election ? — Yes, every day.

• 3925.

  What was the time they were employed ? — There were a quantity of bills to take out, and mere was a good deal of literature going on ; there is always employment for those sort of things; we could have done with a less number.

• 3926.

  How many could you have done with ? — I should think, if we had had about 40 good ones, it would have been ample for us— from 40 to 50.

• 3927.

  Were they the sons of voters, these boys whom you employed ? — I really cannot say. I took good care there should be no voters among them. I made an inquiry about that. I will give you an instance : One morning I wanted a messenger to go over to Sandwich, and I went to the passage and said I wanted a man to go to Sandwich, and there was a man there of the name of Elliott who has figured a good deal in this election. I said, “What are you here for, Elliott ?” He said, “ I am a voter,” I said, “Yes, but you cannot be employed.” He begged very hard for me to let him go, and I did let him go to Sandwich. I gave him something for refreshments and paid his railway fare. The next day I saw him wearing the Conservative colour because he would not be employed.

• 3928.

  That is the man who has disappeared ? — Yes, that is the very man ; he said he was offended by me because I would not employ him.

• 3929.

  You have told us, I think, that there were 230 altogether employed ? — Yes, about 230.

• 3930.

  How many days were most of them employed ? — I should think, to take the average, three to four days. I think you will see the amounts against them which some of them, perhaps 1L. and perhaps 35s.

• 3931.

  Who supplied you with money to pay these ? — Mr. Edwards.

• 3932.

  After the election or before the election ? — I had some before the election and some after— the greater part after the election. We paid 23L. 6s. (I think you will see two items there) on the Saturday for messengers for this very reason— there had been a north-east wind for a very long time, and there was a great deal of real want in the town. I was gone home to tea, and a message came that these men had been bothering Sir Julian very much that they should have some money : some of them said they had no bread to eat, and would I pay them. It was a very unusual thing to pay them before the election, but some of them I paid the 23L. — those who pressed very hard, and the remainder was paid afterwards.

• 3933.

  Then there is an item, ”Personation agents, guides, clerks, canvassers, poll clerks, and committee clerks, 61L. 17s. 6d.” Can you tell me how many of those you employed ? — I have retained the rough copy (handing same). Mr. Edwards had the other.

• 3934.

  You give us the names here ? — I give you the names there.

• 3935.

  Some of these are voters, I think ? — Some of those are voters. I will tell you which are voters if you call them down.